# The Divorce Podcast — Full corpus > Honest conversations about separation, co-parenting and life after divorce This document is the long-form companion to [llms.txt](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/llms.txt). It aggregates the full show notes (and transcripts, when available) for every episode of The Divorce Podcast, hosted by Kate Daly, co-founder of amicable (https://amicable.io). Episodes are listed newest first. Total episodes: 200 --- ## Episode 211 — One step at a time: Pianist's journey through divorce Published: 2026-09-09 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/one-step-at-a-time-michelle-lynne-divorce > If you're wondering whether things really do get better after divorce, this episode is proof that they can - one step at a time. If you're wondering whether things really do get better after divorce, this episode is proof that they can - one step at a time. Kate is joined by [Michelle Lynne](https://michellelynnepianist.com/), a Canadian concert pianist and singer, who shares how she found her way back to herself after a painful divorce, and turned that journey into her debut album. In this episode, we cover: - How Michelle found her way back to herself after divorce - How a creative outlet can help you sit with grief instead of rushing past it - Why it's ok to tell people what you actually need from them - What it took to turn Michelle’s experience into her debut album, One Step at a Time This episode is for anyone who feels lost after a relationship ending and looking for a creative way to process a difficult season. **Trigger warning:** this episode touches on poor mental health, including thoughts of suicide, alongside grief and divorce-related trauma. If any of this feels close to home, please take care while listening - support is available from [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/), [Samaritans](https://www.samaritans.org/), or **your GP**.  ## **Meet Michelle Lynne** Canadian pianist, singer and speaker [Michelle Lynne](https://michellelynnepianist.com/) is known for her dynamic, communicative performances and her ability to forge warm, personal connections with audiences. Appearing frequently as a chamber musician, collaborative pianist, and educator, she is currently on tour in Europe and has performed for over 250,000 people, most recently in the Eiffel Tower. Her debut album One Step at a Time released Nov 2025, and was born out of her own journey through a painful divorce. You can find out more about Michelle [on her website](https://michellelynnepianist.com/) and make sure to follow her [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/thisismichellelynne/?hl=en) and you can [listen to her debut album _One Step at a Time_ on Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/album/0fFmsUjENYEeeVoHzW7ZVQ?si=niwVBN0tSGyB5sszwmFtVg).  ## **More divorce resources** ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep211_one_step_at_a_time_michelle_lynne&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep211_one_step_at_a_time_michelle_lynne&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on healing after divorce and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep211_one_step_at_a_time_michelle_lynne&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep211_one_step_at_a_time_michelle_lynne&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Michelle Lynne 0:00 The piano is something that I've had since I was a little girl, since I was four years old. Nobody can take this from me. Because everything else had been taken. You know, my marriage, the hope for children immediately. Um, I really just wanted to get pregnant around my 30s. It was like my main focus. Everything was just ripped away. And not by choice. Kate Daly 0:20 Welcome to the divorce podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counselor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of amicable, the online legal service separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience and tips, with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. When a marriage ends, it can feel like you lose yourself too. I'm joined today by Michelle Lynne, a Canadian pianist and singer, to talk about her separation, how she rebuilt her identity, and how it shaped her music. She also shares what it took to turn that experience into a deeply personal album and how she got through it one step at a time. Today's episode touches on some heavy themes, including trauma and poor mental health and suicide. So please take care of yourself while you listen. If you loved this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Michelle. Thank you for having me. It's lovely to see you. It's lovely to meet you. Now, you've just been telling me about your amazing tour of Europe and France in particular, and how that kind of came about after your divorce. But just before we get to that, which is super interesting, just give us a bit of background, Michelle, if you will. Tell us your personal story. How did your separation happen? And how did it affect or give you a sense of who you were? Michelle Lynne 2:12 Yeah, uh it's a big question, of course. And I just want to start by saying that I appreciate uh what you're doing, and I think your work is very important to have healthy conversations for anyone listening who's going through this. I think it's uh extraordinarily painful. It's hard to put words into what we've experienced. And sometimes I think uh you feel that no one else could really ever understand what you're going through. So it's it's I think a good thing to have resources like this to turn to. So when I moved to Europe with my ex-husband, we were coming here to pursue our musical studies further, both musicians. And uh, things became clear that they weren't going to be able to continue with our marriage. And I personally am a fighter, so I I desperately tried to rescue what I thought was possible, and ultimately it wasn't. So that was a very painful time because COVID happened, lockdown began. Everyone in the whole world kind of shut down, and my my whole world shut down at the same time. Uh, so that was very interesting to navigate. Kate Daly 3:18 Yeah, all of a sudden you're on your own, and not just kind of on your own emotionally, but physically as well. That must have been a real double whammy, I imagine. Michelle Lynne 3:29 Yeah, one of the first things I did was I jumped on a plane and went straight to my parents. And I didn't tell them exactly what was going on because I wanted to protect what I was hoping would stay, resolve, right? So I just told them that, you know, we were gonna go into counseling, that things were a little rough. They completely supported me. I cannot be, I'm so grateful to the my very core for my parents. They've stood by me from day one and they said, whatever you need, we're here. And I'm not sure everyone has that. So that's just a huge testimony for me that I knew where I could go. I knew where I was safe. And uh yeah, came back and then the the process of lockdown started, and we were still able to meet, but just distanced. So um, I had a small group of friends, women, and we would get together and we would walk once a week with our dogs and just go into the fields for hours and hours. I think I've spent, you know, thousands of hours outside with my dog during that time and just walk and talk and pray and discuss like what's trying to process because it was just so unexpected. I was really blindsided by everything. It's interesting you say that. Kate Daly 4:31 So that's such a familiar kind of thing I hear from people that they were blindsided by it. And, you know, it's like when you're not involved in that particular relationship, it's very easy to say, oh, how could you not see it coming? There must have been signs. But I hear that story so often that it just, you know, I I didn't see it coming, I didn't know what to do. And then you just have to, as you did, create some space to process and the importance of that space, and like you say, for you it was walking, uh, walking with the dogs and the the the women friends, that becomes such a key part of making sense of your journey, what's happened, and and helps you prepare for moving forwards ultimately, I guess. Michelle Lynne 5:19 Right. I think the process was so long that I didn't recognize in that moment that you just don't even know what to think. You're just you're just literally existing because you it can't possibly be true what you're waking up to every day. It can't possibly be reality. This doesn't make any sense. This is not what's supposed to be happening. This is not what I agree with. I'm not letting this happen. I'm going to solve this. You know, all of that kind of things were coming up in me. And it took a long time, I think, to kind of go through the the grieving stages to acknowledge and to not deny or be in denial. And I had very good advice from my actually my very first piano teacher. And she said, if he won't go to counseling with you, you go alone. And that for me was uh new information. I never had considered going alone. Uh, it ended up being life-saving. I did both talk therapy and EMDR, which is for anyone listening, uh, more heavy therapy around eye movement, reprocessing trauma traumatic memories. So yeah, that took a long time. And then in the middle of all this, I started trying to process my feelings at the piano, which is where I've always felt safe. It's always been my thing. And when you marry young, I think so much of my identity was wrapped into him. And I learned how to think from him. He he's extremely intelligent. I adored him in every way. I really looked up to him. So to try and figure out who I was after the fact was, I think, a really long process. And that was um something I didn't even realize was who am I without him? And so one of the things that I could for sure say was the piano. The piano is something that I've had since I was a little girl, since I was four years old. Nobody can take this from me because everything else had been taken. You know, my marriage, the hope for children immediately. I really just wanted to get pregnant around my 30s. It was like my main focus. My life, I mean, everything was just ripped away. And not by choice. So then you you can really fall so much into victim mode. And I know I had to continually try to get myself out of that. This has happened to me. This is so unfair. Because those things are true. But it we, if I chose to stay there, I wouldn't be able to try and move forward for myself. Kate Daly 7:30 It's a really, it's a really interesting balance, isn't it, between giving yourself some time and space to lick your wounds and to feel those emotions. Because, as you say, it isn't fair. I didn't choose this, needs to be acknowledged, versus knowing at what point do you say, well, that is still true, but actually my behavior now has to change because I need to get on with my life and I need to build that life. And I love that point you were saying about discovering who you are. And you tie that to being marrying young and being young. I think the opposite is also true as well. When you've been in a long relationship, you've lost your self of sense, your your identity, your individualism. Very often it's tied, you've sort of become a work role almost. You know, I am the person who is the mother, or I'm the person who's the father, or I'm the breadwinner, or I'm the cleaner up, or I'm the taxi driver, or I'm the emotional prop here, whatever it is, you lose that sense of who you are. So super interesting that it for you it was a time to come back and say, who am I? What do I stand for? What do I think about this or that, or what's my character? And I had a very similar experience because I'm married and divorced twice. And when I married the first time, I was quite young, and I hadn't done anything on my own. So I went from university to marrying my university boyfriend. I always say, I accidentally married my university boyfriend. It should have just been a university boyfriend and then gone off into the world, but I accidentally got married. And then you do have that sense of, well, what am I about? I did my growing up in tandem with a partner, and I then had to go back at my sort of mid-20s, late 20s, and have what I consider to be my teenage years again. So just to work out who I was and what I was gonna do. And it's it sounds like that's a similar thing. But tell me about the piano then. So tell me about the relationship with the piano and the impact that the piano had on how you emotionally coped with your divorce. Michelle Lynne 9:37 So one of the books I read early on that was very helpful was Love Warrior by Glennon Doyle. And she has this, I don't know if you're familiar, but um, she went through a very traumatic uh divorce as well. And uh, one of my good friends recommended this to me. And she has this whole chapter in the book where she talks about sitting on the mat, and this is in reference to her yoga mat. And she would go there, and it was the only time she allowed herself to feel her feelings was in this yoga class. So she would just say, I need to stay on the mat and and not run from the pain that is standing in front of me and not avoid it. So I translated that to sitting at the piano. And so I would go to the piano with everything that I was trying to avoid in of me because I was trying to be strong or find a solution, or your brain is always looking for solutions, right? Because you're in the middle of a disaster, you're in the middle of a crisis. So I'm like, okay, we're gonna figure this out. But at the piano, I could finally stop and take down any walls of pretending and just kind of face the reality of it, just in increments, because it was impossible to face it all at once, especially because your brain wants to future plan of, well, now what's what's six months? Where am I gonna live? I'm Canadian, I live in Europe. Do you know? And then the worst part is that people start asking you, so what are you gonna do? Are you gonna go home? Are you gonna stay? I am literally shocked, traumatized. I have no answers. What do you expect me to have answers, right? So at the piano, I could just stay on the mat, stay on the bench and you know, play some chords and the emotions would would come and I could somehow try to process that. And that was, I think, very healing for me. Through that, I started to write songs, and that's where ultimately my first album came from. Kate Daly 11:16 And so before before the divorce, you obviously played the piano, you were a musician. Is that your job? Michelle Lynne 11:22 So you you were a jobbing musician and this full-time pianist, and uh we moved here studying with different teachers, master classes, looking at competitions, those things, just uh pursuing a freelance classical career. Kate Daly 11:35 So, do you think the emotion that you were going through actually changed the way you played? So, a really trained person, could they hear the difference between you pre and post-divorce? Do you think? Michelle Lynne 11:46 I mean, I think you can always tell when an artist is being uh open and true and honest. And you can tell when there's an artist who just wants to play well and play the notes. And I did have a few comments that people have said, you know, okay, we can we you can hear maturity in the playing. You can see when someone has gone through something. They're like, you know, so yeah, definitely as an artist, whatever we're going through in our life, we use that to fuel the art. But I think in in this case, it was the only way that I knew how to try and be honest with myself. Kate Daly 12:14 And was it specific pieces of music that you played that gave you kind of the ability to process, or was it just the act of being lost in the technicalities of the of playing the music and feeling the music? Michelle Lynne 12:31 I think I did a lot of kind of improvisational practice at the piano where I would just yeah, improvise based on whatever I was feeling in the moment. But I also did work through some well-loved pieces, some Chopin and um easy listening pieces, things that I've loved my whole life, that I maybe had more time to practice because it was the middle of COVID. So lots of time at home. And um also I started playing Coldplay, my favorite band. And this is a fun story because it ties into the candlelight uh explosion of my life in 2022 when the first call I ever got for them was, Can you come play a cold play concert in Brussels? And I thought, do I need to pay for this? Like this is this is the best thing ever. I've been practicing their pieces during COVID just to enjoy. And again, finding who you are without the other person is also coming back to like, what is my first love? What are things that bring me joy? What are things that interest me as a person? Have I laughed in the last six months? Like, where can I find something that's interesting for me? So that helped. Kate Daly 13:27 And what do you think then technically happens when you're playing a piece of music as far as the brain and the emotional healing is concerned? Do you have a sense of what's going on for you? Because I guess there might be other people who are maybe obviously not necessarily in the same league or in terms of what you do, but they might be interested, they might tinker with the piano, they might they might have a passion for it. What do you think is happening when you're connecting with the music from an emotional perspective? Michelle Lynne 13:56 The first thing that comes to mind is that you know you can bypass your rational brain to all of the noise in your mind. You can just stop. Yeah. Just give yourself a break and say, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna solve the world in the next 30 minutes, I'm just gonna listen. And I think it also teaches you to be present because there's so much in our future that is unknown when a marriage fails. So many things you thought were going to happen and are no longer going to happen. So the the future is empty somehow and scary. So if I can just sit here in this moment, I don't need to figure things out right now. I just need to be here. Kate Daly 14:32 Yeah, and I'm okay. I am here, I'm safe, I'm alive, I am feeling, I am being, I don't have to do more than that. There are some moments where you just need to breathe, aren't there? And just be and and not plan. And you're right, it's it's precious that ability to turn off the noise, whether that's through the piano playing or the yoga that you mentioned, or or whatever it is you do, but but carving out those moments for yourself when you're going through something like this, something as tumultuous as this, is really important because you're right, everything's thrown up in the air. Isn't it? Everything goes up in the air. Your future, your present, you question the past, you question motives, you question conversations, all of it goes on and on and goes around and round in your head, let alone all the practical stuff that you have to do, as you were saying earlier. Where the hell am I gonna live? What am I gonna live on? How am I going to plan for my future? What about if I am now faced with not my life not planning out like I wanted it to, whether that's children or whatever it is. So huge, huge things, a very crowded brain. What an amazing skill to be able to quieten that down. Michelle Lynne 15:51 Mm-hmm. And you can do that with other things. You know, I I remember I was meeting with him weekly at one point as we were trying to navigate if reconciliation was possible. And I came back after a particularly hard meeting, and my neighbor just had a cup of tea waiting for me on the side table. And I don't know, it just that moment was so important to me because I just came home and someone took care of me. And it was like, just take a minute because you just need to sit. And um, yeah, little things like that to find yourself, to distract yourself, to get away from the pressure or the decision-making process, as you're saying, there's so many decisions that you have to make as well early in the process. Kate Daly 16:28 Yeah. It does, it feels very overwhelming, doesn't it? The number of decisions you have to make. And at a time when you're feeling so kind of discombobulated and yet and vulnerable. These are some of the most important decisions you're ever going to have to make, aren't they? And I always think it's just like that's it's the weirdest thing. It's like teenage girls starting periods as mothers are going through menopause. You know, it's like, who designed this system? Who actually designed it? Because this is mad. It's just mad. But it's that kind of thing, isn't it? It's just like I completely at odds with my emotions, and yet here I am having to make life-changing decisions about where I'm gonna live and what my pension's gonna look like, and you know, how I'm gonna cope and earn money and all of that kind of stuff. So yeah. You went back to your parents. How did the story unfold from there? And what help and support did you find most useful once you'd kind of regrouped at your parents and then sort of what happened next? Michelle Lynne 17:28 It was good to be there, but I I think also like your brain is vibrating so fast because you're just not sure what's happening. So when I came back, actually, I had a group of friends who picked me up from the airport in Amsterdam and they drove me home and they had like a welcome home sign, and that was just extremely meaningful because I knew I have no idea what's gonna happen to me, but I have people here who love me. And um, I think at least every day I had to reach out to someone for a phone call or support or encouragement. Or I had so many people also letting me know they were praying for me for a big church community, taking it really, I think at some points moment by moment, where it was so heavy. It felt so heavy that I could not think of the whole day. I had to really just say, How am I gonna get through this next hour? And one important thing I wanted to mention was the allowance I had to give myself to not be okay. Because I think some people try to rush you through the process of emotional healing, and they'll say, You're young, you'll find someone else, or you know, you're gonna be okay. Look how much, look, you know, how many gifts you have, or you're gonna figure it out. It's like you cannot rush someone through their process of pain and grief. And that's something that I had to learn also for myself because I'm also someone who likes to be next, next, next. And so this was really just such a huge stop sign. So the part of writing the album, there are uh multiple songs that I wrote with the lyrics, and some songs are really just about acknowledging the current situation, and there's no smile on your face at the end, and there's no pat on the back, and there's no hope. Yeah, no happy ending. Kate Daly 19:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michelle Lynne 19:04 You are, and that's okay. Kate Daly 19:06 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's so important because you're right, and it's all sort of comes from a well-meaning place, but you so many people want to say, Oh, but it's all worked out okay, don't they? Just because their own brain wants to conclude, wants to cut it off, wants to square the circle, whatever you want to call it, doesn't it? Because that's cognitive dissonance, otherwise. So we like our brains like to have a nice, neat, wrapped-up ending, and that's kind of the the essence of storytelling, isn't it? And they all lived happily ever after. But actually, it's not that, is it? And it not necessarily, and you just need the acknowledgement and the space for it not to be okay, and that to be okay, that it's not okay. Like you can be not okay and the world not end, they're two different things, aren't they? But you can just want to sometimes sit with the not okay-ness of it all and be messy and not have the reassuring pat on the back. And and it sounds like that was really important that your friends maybe gave you that space to be not okay as well. So it's kind of a two-way street, isn't it? Michelle Lynne 20:09 And my circle became very small. So it was interesting to see the different reactions of people. Like, I've always been someone who had 50 best friends. I told everyone everything, like, my life is an open book, you know. And then after this experience, my life, my inner circle got very small. And you quickly saw who were the people that are going to actually listen to you when you say, like, actually, I I can't, I can't put a positive spin on this. And they'll let you be there, as you're saying, they'll walk with you through that. And then there's the people who are like, Oh, you know, you gotta get through this, you gotta move on, you gotta, you gotta think ahead. And and so that for me kind of became the determining factor of how close can I let people in right now? Because I had to learn what I needed in that season. Kate Daly 20:49 Yeah. And did you feel able to tell people what you needed? Because I think that's the other thing, you know, when I talk to people all the time, they're quite reticent to be that direct. And maybe that's a cultural thing from a you know a British perspective. But you know, it's kind of quite rare for people to gather their friends together and say, look, this is what I need. I don't need this, I don't need that, I do need this. I think we tend not to be that direct culturally in this country. So I don't know whether Canadians are a bit more direct than the British, not terribly. Yeah. Michelle Lynne 21:25 Well, yeah. I think in the moment I could not tell people what I needed because I didn't know myself. Because I was just trying to process it. And I was, yeah, I was unable to say, this isn't helpful. Now, on the if somebody says, Wow, look how great your life turned out, it's so you know, good that happened to you, then I'll stop them and say, you know, actually, that's not how I see things, but thank you. Because I see that they're trying to be supportive, but I I am a person who will never say, I'm glad I went through that, or it's okay that it happened, or, you know, that's not what I believe. That's Not where I stand. So it's okay if people want to share their opinions. I think also it depends how close they are to you. If it's a stranger on the street, you know, whatever, they can have their opinion, or for one of my followers or whatever, it's fine. But if it's a close friend, I think they know me a little bit better than that. They know they've seen inside the curtain. Kate Daly 22:16 Yeah. Michelle Lynne 22:17 Interesting. Kate Daly 22:18 So so what so tell me about writing this album then? So you you wrote an album, but then did you write it specifically about the divorce? Or was the divorce just a sort of two steps back, kind of informing it, or to what extent did the divorce play a part in that album? Michelle Lynne 22:40 Yeah, you're great questions. You're right. I think in I was just so in the moment that I wasn't thinking of a zoomed-out strategic way of doing this. I was just walking through it. So the album theme is about healing, um, water, and refreshing. So water is cleansing, water is renewing, there's uh new life. That's why I have cherry blossoms on the cover, that there's there's newness and hope that comes because I think by the end of the album we get to a place of hope. But just to give you an idea, the first, the first one's called Hold On. And so being specific about the divorce, there's nothing in here where someone would listen to this and know what I've gone through. My my personal story is not in the lyrics. However, I did use a lot of imagery around loss, death with the one of the songs called Empty Promises. And the lyric is literally, Did you know that you were everything to me? What do I do with these empty promises? Because I I had a hope and a future, and that was ripped away and destroyed. So, what do I do? What do you actually do at that moment? I didn't know. So it's asking these questions. One of them is pretty vulnerable. It's called Let Me Heal. I had the feeling when I when everything came out that, you know, I believe marriage is a strong soul connection with someone. So your soul, part of your soul dies. You know, I felt like I was at the very core bleeding. So the the lyric is carry me on a stretcher, I'm bleeding from within. Cut so deep I can't breathe. Help me walk again. And so I think anyone who doesn't know me now has listened to this and said, Oh, I I knew something happened to you, but I wasn't sure what. And honestly, this is the first time I've ever publicly spoken about my divorce. So this is also a little bit of a step out for me. Kate Daly 24:16 Yeah, and I well, the obvious retort to that isn't, and how does it feel? How uncomfortable is it to be able to put voice to what is what's very, very personal. Michelle Lynne 24:28 Yeah, it feels obviously vulnerable. And I hope that the message for anyone listening is hope and encouragement that there is a way forward if you're facing this, when you're facing this, because there was a point for me where I truly believed that I had nothing to live for. And it was it was such a dark place, and now my life is completely transport and different, but I could not see any possibility of a bright future back then. So I think through the album and through the music, my intention is to give anyone who needs hope just a place to sit and be with their feelings and to be honest with themselves and honest with their friends and others and and to walk through this in a healthy way. Well, I'm full of admiration. Kate Daly 25:12 I just want to say thank you for you know sharing for sharing that because it is really difficult when people come on a podcast and have to talk about something that's quite say personal. So, on behalf of everybody listening and anyone that's going through this, it's a really difficult message to convey because, like you said earlier, what somebody going through this doesn't want to hear is, oh, you'll be okay. But the reality of it is, as you've just said, that you are okay and you have come through it. And it's really difficult when you're in that moment to even countenance that and to be able to imagine what your life will be like or anything. And I think sometimes that's one of the hardest things because it is really hard to find the light at the end of the tunnel when you really are in the thick of it, and that sense of hopelessness that you've just put voice to and spoken about is so common, and yet so many people feel afraid to voice it or to say anything. So the fact that you can come here and say those things is just so amazing, and I'm so grateful that you that you have. So just a big fat thank you from me for saying that. Well, thanks, Kate, for creating space for it as well. Thank you. Was there anything when you were writing the album that surprised you in terms of did you expect a certain level of healing or a certain journey you might go on and it not quite be that way? Because I think sometimes when we tell the story, it looks like it's a nice, easy narrative. I know when I talk about, you know, the journey to amicable art, there's a story now about how it goes and why it came about and all of that kind of stuff, but it didn't feel that curated at the time. It just felt like a whole series of random events being thrust at me. You sort of try to navigate your way through and you look back and oh gosh, there's a story. But yeah, I don't know. Was it the same with writing the album? Did you feel like you were in a process or did it was it a bit more random than that? Michelle Lynne 27:07 It took so long to get this album out because I had the first of all, in the classical music world, it's not common to cross-genre. So this was a step out for me artistically to have both singer-songwriter plus classical repertoire. There's some revell on here, some list. So that was a kind of a risk that I was taking because it was my debut album, and I didn't want the classical music world to then qualify me as uh lesser than, and she went in the pop direction. So that was a big mind block for me. Then there was a crowdfunding element that I did for the album. So that was a big mind block because I ended up raising 10,000 euros for the album, but then I had to promote it and the campaign, and so that was a whole thing. And so there was a lot besides the the divorce stuff that it was actually just really hard to bring an album out as an independent artist. And then something that surprised me was the amount of wonderful people who came along and supported the project. So my producer really helped kind of craft my songs. I would come to him with little pieces and ideas, and then he showed me what the process was to put it together in a demo. I'd never done that before. I'd never seen what it was meant to produce a pop song because I'm a classical pianist. I had a vocal coach who was walking with me every week, working through all of my, you know, technical flubs and things, giving me confidence. Um, and then that's the confidence that I carried as through the tour, as my, you know, the stages got bigger and more frequent. And I just, I kind of just grew into this bigger version of myself, uh, I guess I can say, because of these people pouring into me. So that was really fun. Kate Daly 28:31 I mean, that's interesting, isn't it? Because your career, I guess, enabled you to sort of rebuild your sense of self as well. And maybe that's harder if you work in a call center or you know, you're on the front line of some kind of service kind of industry. I guess that is going to be harder. But the idea that building your confidence is actually part of the healing journey, I think it's quite important, isn't it? Because guess when somebody's, you know, you've been through the breakdown of a relationship when you've been left and you've experienced that sense of the relationship not working, you you're left feeling with all sorts of negative emotions. So to actually, and your confidence is on the floor. So that build back of confidence is actually a really important part of the journey, isn't it? So I guess that must have been quite a thrill to be able to look back in such a visual way, like you say, of audiences getting bigger, stage is getting bigger, venues getting bigger. It must have been quite a thrill to watch yourself, you know, progress through those stages, I guess. Michelle Lynne 29:37 Yeah. One important thing was I changed my name after the divorce, and then my career really started to take off. Because as an artist, our name is the public, how people know you. So I'm really glad that I didn't get more well-known with my divorce name because then you have you have to lose and rebuild. And, you know, that takes time as an artist to get your name out there. And it's just these things we have to think about, unfortunately, as I think as women as well. But yeah, it's nice to look through the photos and see the journey because you're right. And, you know, of course, I've hired people to, you know, the personal trainer and like starting to eat better and the mindset stuff. And I have a coaching company for musicians. So we've had done a ton of branding trainings, social media, all of the things. So I think on every angle, it's been kind of rebuilding. And when I first realized that I had to rebuild my life, it was the most overwhelming, awful feeling because I didn't want to rebuild my life. I liked my life. Yeah, nothing wrong with the old one. Yeah, exactly. I didn't, I felt so angry and unjust. Because I'm why should I have to rebuild? I've worked so hard to get here as it is. But rebuilding has actually been fun and I'm still building. Well, that's the thing with rebuilding, it never stops. Kate Daly 30:42 I always think it's like goud is uh cicada familiar, isn't it? It's just like it's one of those, well, though, although to be fair, that they have just finished that. So that was probably a rubbish analogy. But yes, that's been a long project. But yeah, I I I guess it's it's it's great to see that sense of rebuilding and repurposing of life and how you can move on. Do you think there are lessons learned sounds really trite? I don't mean it in that sense, but do you think there are things you're gonna take that you know as a consequence of going through this experience that you will not repeat again? Are there things that you will do differently? Or do we just not learn those lessons as human beings and we will just carry on making the same mistakes? Michelle Lynne 31:29 Oh boy, I hope not. I think one way that I changed is that I've learned to slow down also with people. It I think it takes longer for me to trust people now. I'm more careful with my relationships, I'm much more careful with what I share. As I mentioned before, 50 Best Friends has become four, and my inner circle is really protected in private. And um, even if it comes to like content strategy online, there are very clear boundaries for me. Like, for example, I never speak about my private life online. So again, this is today is a shift. But that's what I've learned. Boundaries is what I've learned, I think. Kate Daly 32:04 Well, look, in just a minute, Michelle, I'm going to ask you to share some advice on how to start rebuilding your life after divorce. But just before I do, if you're listening and this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort or just a tip that's made things feel a little bit better or a little bit more manageable, please make sure to follow the divorce podcast on your favorite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice, real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. So, Michelle, then some final advice. If someone is listening to this and you know they're going through what you've been through, what I've been through, what would be your advice for anyone starting to rebuild after a separation when it feels almost impossible? Michelle Lynne 32:47 One thing I realized, I told myself, when your whole, you know, half your life is on fire, you don't set the other half on fire too. So I kept everything that was safe or working, which is why I also didn't, you know, pick up and try to move home. Because yeah, the marriage was gone and a lot of things were not there anymore. But I stayed with what I knew. I stayed with the people that I knew. Rediscovering pieces of yourself from before that relationship or things outside of the relationship, I think can really help. And I would say any kind of creative act, whether that's journaling or painting or poetry or listening to a new genre of music, something to get you out of that rumination phase and to give you a little bit of space. Try to zoom out your perspective and most of all, don't rush the process. Kate Daly 33:37 And that's hard, isn't it, not to rush? Because sometimes we're just desperate to get out of a particularly tricky phase, aren't we? But like you said before, just accepting it's okay to not be okay is probably one of the biggest things that you can do. So yeah. Michelle Lynne 33:52 And if we want to avoid making the same mistake again, then we need to slow down because you have to pay attention and discern who are these people coming into my life? Can I trust them? What are my patterns? What and this is what therapy helps expose in you, your ways of thinking, things that you missed previously. Now I ask better questions. Kate Daly 34:10 That's interesting. Where can people find more information about you and the tour that you're doing? Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Michelle Lynne 34:18 Yeah, sure. So my Instagram is this is Michelle Lynn, L-Y-N-N-E, and my website is Michelle LynnPianist.com. All of my upcoming dates are there. I am currently through Luxembourg, Belgium, and France and the Netherlands where I live. The album is everywhere. Spotify, YouTube, uh, Apple Music. It's called One Step at a Time, which is how I got through my divorce, one step at a time. And also how I released this album because it was hard. Kate Daly 34:43 Yeah, that feels like a really good title for this episode, isn't it? One Step at a Time. Definitely. It just feels like that's exactly what you've talked us through. You just felt that feeling of one step at a time. Brilliant. And the and it's a concert. Just tell us a bit about the concert. Michelle Lynne 34:56 Yeah. So I play multiple concert programs for candlelight concerts. They do Hans Zimmer, Inaugurate, Adele, Coldplay, Imagine Dragons, a lot of pop stuff. They also do Chopin, Mozart. Wow, brilliant. Kate Daly 35:08 So that's, I guess that's could be the soundtrack to people's divorces, then or separations, couldn't it almost? Michelle Lynne 35:14 Yeah, there's lots on Spotify to help with that. Kate Daly 35:16 Fabulous. Don't forget for separation and co-parenting support, please visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or you can book a free advice consultation. You can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram. You can hear about our new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorcepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. Now we'd love to hear how we can help further. So please share questions on divorce, separation or co-parenting with us at hello@ amicable.co.uk. You can also join our subscription platform, amicable space, where you'll find our community forum. And that's a safe place to ask questions as you go through a separation or co-parenting. Members get free access to our monthly QA webinars with amicable divorce specialists, and you can ask them questions in real time. The link to sign up is in the episode description, so please go there if you're interested. Michelle, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you this afternoon. Thank you so much for joining me, and thank you everybody for listening. --- ## Episode 210 — In brief: co-parenting when you travel for work Published: 2026-09-02 · Duration: 15 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-co-parenting-work-travel > If you're navigating work travel while co-parenting, this episode will help you plan around it without the guilt, or the arguments. If you're navigating work travel while co-parenting, this episode will help you plan around it without the guilt, or the arguments. In this episode, Kate Daly shares practical advice on how to plan childcare, communicate with your co-parent, and build a support network so work travel doesn't disrupt your co-parenting relationship or your children's routines. In this episode, we cover: - Why work travel feels different once you're co-parenting - How to agree a parenting plan for travel - Why your co-parent isn't your default childcare, and what to do instead - Keeping your co-parent in the loop and staying connected with your kids while you're away This episode is for co-parents whose work involves travel, or anyone working out childcare arrangements beyond the usual routine. ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep210_work_travel_coparent&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### Transcript Kate Daly 0:00 Co-parenting well isn't easy, and it's not easy when one of you has to travel for work, but it is about how you plan and communicate. And if you can get the planning and communication right, then being away for work doesn't have to be an issue, and it doesn't have to disrupt your co-parenting relationship. Welcome to The Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news and events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In this in-brief episode, we're talking about travelling for work after separation. Is your co-parent really your first port of call, or is there a better way to plan for work travel? Traveling to work after a separation when you've got kids can be quite tricky. And I guess this is a subject that doesn't often get talked about. There's kind of an assumption sometimes, isn't there, that we just pick up where we left off. So a relationship where one of you has travelled and the other one's been at home with the kids can quickly turn into a source of sort of angst and difficulty when you're co-parenting and you're no longer living in the same house. Maybe when you were together, a work trip meant, I don't know, a quick conversation at home. But now you're separated and you live in different places, it takes a lot more planning and it needs a different style of communication. And that shift takes some adjusting to. I think one of the important things is naming some of the changes that are going on. And when you only see your kids, or if you see your kids for less time than you used to, then some of those emotions that come up can be feeling very guilty or very sad that you're not maximizing the time that you have available to spend with your kids. But you know what? That's life. That's normal life. Sometimes we are forced to put work and things in front of the time we'd like to spend with our loved ones. So feeling guilty and worrying about this is perfectly normal. But also it's a chance to re-evaluate the way that you've worked in the past and also a chance to step back and think about the arrangements and what's going to suit your kids best if you are traveling. Nobody wants to feel like a less committed parent. And I totally get that. But the reality of life is sometimes work means we have to travel and we can't do or be the parent perhaps we want to be. Needing to travel for work doesn't mean you're a bad parent or a bad co-parent, but it does mean you need to plan slightly differently and it does require some flexibility. Now, the best way to tackle all of this is to do it at the beginning. And if travel is a regular part of your job, then writing the arrangements down and writing them into a parenting plan when you first separate and make the arrangements for your children can save a lot of arguments. So the first thing to note is rather than just assuming that your co-parent will pick up where they left off when you live together, don't make any of those assumptions, but have those conversations when you're thinking about how you're both going to spend time with the kids. It can be really helpful, particularly if you're the parent with the co-parent on the receiving end of somebody else's travel, is that you agree a notice period. Now, again, that's in an ideal world, and everybody will understand that sometimes work trips are sprung on us and there's nothing we can do about it. So having an ideal kind of notice period where you can give the other co-parent as much of a heads up as possible is great, but you can't die in a ditch for it because sometimes life doesn't work like that. It's good to have a what's normal, what usually will happen plan so that you've got that nailed down and where as far as possible you can, you stick to that. This is what happens. Again, just bearing in mind that it's not always possible to stick to what you've agreed and what's going to happen. So you've got to be flexible when you're thinking about this. So who do you normally ask? Is it the first port of call going to be your co-parent or are there other people that you can bring into the mix? Have that conversation and make a plan and agree it. Your co-parent isn't your default childcare. If you're due to have the children and a work trip falls on that time, then it's really your responsibility to make those alternative arrangements and not assume that your co-parent will automatically pick up the slack. That's one of the traps I see lots of parents getting into. Just the assumption that if you can't do something because it's work, the other parent will automatically pick up the slack. It's the same with if your kid is sick on a day that you are supposed to be responsible for them. You can't just assume that you've still got to go to work and your other parent will pick up the slack. You need to make arrangements for that. You need to ask the other parent if that's the what you've agreed, that they will always be your default. But if not, you are responsible for making the arrangements for your children on the days that you are due to have them. So if that means calling in sick for work or telling work that you've got childcare responsibilities, even though that's not the norm or what you've been doing in the past, that's kind of the new life that you're signing up to being a co-parent. And that's a conversation that's got to be negotiated at work as much as it's got to be negotiated at home. So it's tricky because I guess separation often changes how we feel about work and how we relate to work as well, and whether we do as much, whether we do less or more work. And it can be a struggle for the people around us to understand those changes as much as it is for us to navigate those changes ourselves. So again, being really open with the communication, talking about it with your boss or your work colleagues, making sure that they understand the situation you're in where you can be flexible and where you simply can't is super important. It's kind of that idea of permission to say yes to opportunities and permission to say no when the timing's all wrong. So it's making sure you've been open and as far as you can be straightforward with the people around you, and that you've got a network in place who can help out. So rather than just focusing on your ex, are there other people in your network who can help you? What about grandparents? What about aunts and uncles, friends and family? Can you share child care with another family? Because that gives you not just the option of sharing the cost, but it gives you multiple options with the other parents as well. So it might be paid options like a regular babysitter or a childminder, it could be holiday clubs or having two or three people in your network that you know you can reciprocate for if they are stuck, and that they will reciprocate for you if you are stuck. This makes such a massive difference. And it can be quite a kind of psychological shift as well, because sometimes we haven't been used to asking for help. We've been a fairly self-contained unit between the two of us, and all of a sudden it's not quite that simple anymore. And actually learning to feel comfortable with asking for help when you need it can be quite a big deal if you've not, if you're not used to it, if you're independent-minded, you're used to just having everything under control. So being aware that these things are different and are going to feel different is kind of part of this transition from parent to co-parent. You know, we talk about this all the time. There's a huge assumption that one day we wake up and we're co-parents and we just know what to do. But we kind of, we know that that's not right. And we know that there is an adjustment period. Part of that adjustment period is getting more comfortable with asking when you need something. So building a network, whether that's friends, family, or people you can reciprocate with, or whether that's a paid options network, is super important when you know that you've got to travel. It's about thinking beyond your co-parent and beyond what's always happened before. Going back to the co-parent relationship, you need to keep your co-parent in the loop, even when you've arranged cover, because you're putting your children with other people. So, irrespective of whether, you know, you're on shift as the co-parent and you've made your alternative arrangements, it's always better to over-communicate and tell them, even if it's a relative covering, it affects them. And handovers may happen from somebody else's house or at different times. So it's important to keep everybody in the loop. Practical details help too. So who's looking after the children, who's going to be the point of contact, where all the numbers are, what the handover arrangements look like, what's going to work while you're away, and what's going to happen whilst you're away is kind of really key. So making sure, as far as possible, if you've got things written down or in apps or notes apps that you can just schedule on and send to people and share with people, that makes it a whole bunch easier. So getting that default routine into place and getting the default numbers, contact numbers, and arrangements in place and sharing that with your wider network is important. It's also important to keep people updated when you're away on the trip. So if things change, mid-trip, a delayed flight, an extended stay, then letting people know as soon as possible. It sounds really obvious, but sometimes we get really caught up in work and it can be hard to remember all the different moving, spinning plates, particularly if you're the parent who hasn't been used to looking after the children on a regular or full-time basis. You might have been in the habit where you just know you don't have to worry, you can walk out the door, get on that flight, and know that the other parent is looking after the kids. You can stay focused on work, you don't have to re-engage until you're kind of on the journey home. When you've become a co-parent and you don't have that default option, that changes. And so getting into the mindset of having that always on, always being aware that you're still the parent, even if you're not there, that's an important mental change and it shifts the mental load for you as well. So I think some of the key things are ask, don't announce, give dates, make it clear it's fine to say no, and know that if your co-parent says no, you're responsible for finding alternatives. It's always good when you're communicating these new areas to keep things factual and as business-like as you can. And just in the same way you wouldn't assume a friend or a parent was going to just pick up slack. You'd always ask them. It's the same with your co-parent. Offer some flexibility back. And it's always good to pay it forward first. So if you can be more flexible before anyone else has been flexible with you, and if you can continue to be flexible, even if the other person is more rigid and structured and less flexible, that will only benefit your children. Reciprocity is important, but if you the other parent isn't going to reciprocate, then you can set the example and you can set the tone for how you want things to work for the kids. And it makes things a lot more sustainable. If travel requests keep becoming a flashpoint, go back to the parenting plan. Sit down when there isn't a travel arrangement to be made and go through what this needs to look like in practice in the abstract first. It's always much easier to get agreements in the abstract rather than when there's something very burning and very pressing happening because that brings its own kind of pressure. If you can, support your kids by keeping as much of their routine as possible while you're away. So who's ever in charge, try and get them to stick to the normal routines and stay connected without hovering. So a good night call agreed in advance so it doesn't cut across anyone else's time. Being more flexible with how often you speak to the kids and being led by what they want rather than what you feel you want is always a good way of looking at things. If the kids find it easier not to talk to you when you're away because it stirs up feelings of missing you, then maybe you take that tough decision not to be in touch quite so much so that they aren't quite so bothered. So think about it from that perspective. I think a closing reflection from me on this is co-parenting well isn't easy. And it's not easy when one of you has to travel for work, but it is about how you plan and communicate. And if you can get the planning and communication right, then being away for work doesn't have to be an issue and it doesn't have to disrupt your co-parenting relationship. That's all we've got time for today. Don't forget, for separation and co-parenting support, you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free advice consultation. You can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help you further. So share questions on divorce or separation and co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk. You can also join our subscription platform, amicable space, where you'll find our community forum, a safe place to ask anything as you go through separation and co-parenting. Members get access to our monthly QA webinars with amicable Divorce Specialists, where you can ask your questions in real time. The link to sign up is in this episode description. I hope that was interesting. I hope it was useful. Thanks everyone for listening. --- ## Episode 209 — How to be a role model for your children through divorce Published: 2026-08-26 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/role-model-for-children-through-divorce > What do you show your children when you decide your marriage has to end? What do you show your children when you decide your marriage has to end? Kate is joined by [Buzzy Randall](https://www.instagram.com/buzzyrandall/), a hospitality consultant, to talk about how she chose to model strength, honesty and self-worth for her daughters throughout her divorce. We talk about: - Why being a role model to your children throughout your relationship and separation matters - Showing up honestly for your kids, including the moments you don't have it all together - The shame and stigma that can surround divorce, especially when infidelity's involved - Why having someone else who's been through something similar can make all the difference - Rebuilding your self-identity, confidence and ability to make decisions for yourself ⚠️ **Trigger warning:** this episode touches on infidelity and the emotional impact of divorce and separation. This episode is for anyone thinking about what their separation is teaching their children.  You're not alone in this – if this episode resonated, share it with someone who might need it right now. ## Meet Buzzy Randall [Buzzy](https://www.instagram.com/buzzyrandall/) is a hospitality consultant, entrepreneur, classically trained chef, and currently a Masters Psychology student at the University of Leicester. With more than twenty years' experience in hospitality, including senior creative and operational roles within luxury hotels and events, she has built a career around creating meaningful experiences and supporting people to thrive. Following her own experience of divorce after an eighteen-year marriage, Buzzy became passionate about conversations around separation, resilience, identity and rebuilding life after significant change. Through her writing, podcasting and studies in psychology and counselling, she explores how people navigate loss, rediscover themselves, and create fulfilling new chapters. To hear more from Buzzy [follow her on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/buzzyrandall/) and [listen to her podcast _The Big D_](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/thebigd-with-ateh-and-buzzy/id1796434433). ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep209_role_model_buzzy_randall&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:press@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Buzzy Randall 0:00 Doesn't matter what side of the divorce you're on, you're going to be affected, your confidence is going to be knocked, it's going to be painful, whatever. And to be in that scary place without much confidence, you realise a lot about yourself. Kate Daly 0:18 Welcome to The Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, and tips, with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. In this episode, I'm joined by Bussy Randall, a hospitality consultant, to share her own separation story from role modelling for her children to the shame around infidelity, friendship shifts, and finding her confidence again. This episode touches on issues of infidelity, so do listen with care. If you love this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Buzzy. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. It's really lovely to have you. And it's exciting to be able to spend some time talking about your own divorce story and your personal journey and how that shaped your career and how you help other people as well. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Let's start, if we can, by you sharing a little bit about your own separation story. So was there a single moment when you knew your marriage was over, or was it something that built more slowly than that? Buzzy Randall 2:01 Well, it was two things. It was both, really. And I suppose that uh everybody who goes through a separation and a divorce will say similar things that in hindsight all the signs were there, but you didn't want to see them. So there was a defining moment that involved me reading a message on his phone that really confirmed the suspicions that I'd had and that just really put a full stop on it. And I felt very passionately, as a mother of daughters, that I had to act in a very considered way for their futures, and that I had to show them as a woman that we were worth more. Because I know that a lot of couples can get through an infidelity, but I felt that we were not a couple that could, and that that I wanted to show my daughters that they were worth more, that they that being cheated on was not something that they had to put up with when they grow up. So, yes, that was the kind of defining moment. Kate Daly 3:18 Yeah. That is so interesting because we often talk about what you role model to your children when you know you're at the point of deciding whether or not a marriage is over. And I often have conversations with people where I say to them when they're kind of thinking that it might be worse for their kids if they leave, even if the marriage is broken, dysfunctional, not working. And I don't mean that there has to be abuse or something really like really terrible going on, but even, as you say, things that are just not morally right from your perspective or don't feel right, where it's infidelity and things like that. And I often say to people, well, would you want your kids, if your kids came to you and asked for your advice and asked you whether or not they should aspire to the relationship that you have, if the answer to that isn't yes, then you are you've got a quite a tough decision because effectively you're role modelling that staying is okay, even though you don't think it's okay. And that's really confusing for kids. It's really truck, it's really tricky. So I it's really interesting to hear you say that. That you felt you felt straight away that you knew that it wasn't something that you could get past. Because 18 years, you've been married 18 years, that is a long marriage, isn't it? It's a long time to be with somebody. Buzzy Randall 4:38 I think the thing that really hurt the most was that it's 18 years building a future for that future to then come crashing down, is it's not so much the 18 years that you've spent together because you've had those 18 years, it's then seeing the next 18 years and what do they look like. And that's where my children really became so important in that decision making because they've got then they're now teenagers, and they're going to be embarking on relationships and hopefully marriages of their own and families of their own. And it was really important to for me to show them what a strong and capable woman I can be as their mum, but also they can be. Kate Daly 5:32 You role modeled it from the outset, which is really interesting because sometimes in those moments when you're right at the sharp end of it, your own emotions and the immediacy of how it feels can can overwhelm you, can't it? And it can completely get out, you know, in the way. But it sounds to me like actually, even in that real sort of moment of crisis, you were thinking about the bigger picture. How do you do that? How are you not overwhelmed? Buzzy Randall 5:59 I was utterly overwhelmed for months, if not years. So I I mean, it's easy to sit here now and say, oh, well, I made a decision based on them. I mean, it was terrifying, it still is terrifying, but it's also definitely it definitely was the right decision. And I do question if I'd had boys, if I might have made a different decision. But I didn't have boys, so there's no point kind of dwelling on it. But I it's I suppose in in the process of healing and going through all of this and my studies and psychology and everything, I have thought, I wonder if I wasn't so if it wasn't so important for me to show my girls the strength of being a woman, if my decision would have been a different one, or if I would have maybe felt it wasn't so important and you know, well, maybe just stick through it and brush it under the carpet. I don't know that I don't have sons, I have daughters. So the decision was made. Kate Daly 7:14 And as you were going through this, you said you were overwhelmed, and as you were going through that sense of feeling so overwhelmed, what was it that allowed you to kind of move forward? Because there'll be people listening who will recognise this narrative and recognize the story. What helped you put one foot in front of another? How did you keep going in those very early days when you'd made this big decision to end a long marriage that had children involved? You know, they're some of the biggest barriers, aren't there? It wasn't a short marriage, it wasn't that there wasn't any kids, you know, it was complicated. You'd shared a life of 18 years together, you're staring down the barrel of, as you say, not the lovely times you've had in the past, but the sense of nothingness. You've got to rebuild this future you'd expected to have. What helped you in those moments go from one day to the next? Buzzy Randall 8:05 I think it's really important, certainly at the very beginning, to a bit like when you're going into battle, you need to, or or you're playing a sport, you need to have your team around you. And that can look different to everybody, but it's your immediate support network. And my children were part of that team, but and my family, my parents, my sisters, they were part of that team. But then also I got a mentor, which happened by complete chance. Um, but I was consulting with the career coach. I was saying to her, she's become a really good friend of mine and she's brilliant and she's totally helped me out. But I was saying, I just I'm struggling with the divorce process. I don't know anybody who has been through what I'm going through, and I don't know the process. I don't know the like there's no divorce in my family anywhere. So, and I don't I don't know what the lawyers are saying, I don't know what to expect, I don't understand any of this. I felt really alone, which is bizarre because 50% of us who are married are gonna go through this, and so it's it felt really strange to be going through something that so many people go through and yet feeling like I was the only person in the world going through it. And I explained this to her, and she said, I've got a friend, he's going through a divorce, he's about a year ahead of you in the process. Call him. And so we we spoke, and still I still speak to him every week. We schedule an hour, and he's become one of my closest friends, and I adore him. And he I'd like to think we both really helped each other, but he was really helpful and just helped explain the processes and and I think also him being a male helped because I wasn't. Kate Daly 10:05 You had an alternative perspective, you weren't just hunkering down as the female side of the story, but you had an insight into presumably how you'd need to negotiate and what what your ex might be thinking, and you'd got an insight into that. And I think that's the bit that so many times we miss when we're going through this. But actually, it's not so much I think people get obsessed with thinking about having a very clear strategy for what they want and what they need, and you forget that actually the successful negotiators amongst the world, they're the people who think about what the other person needs. So, what are you what are you allowing them to get off their tick list that will allow them to say yes to your tick list? That's to me is so interesting. So, this was all because you had a male friend going through it at the same time, or yeah, albeit he was ahead of you. Buzzy Randall 10:58 Yeah, but he yes, he's I value his friendship enormously. And of course, it's the sisterhood, isn't it? I mean, uh, my girlfriends, so what I lived abroad initially, my ex-husband and I lived abroad, and then I came back to the UK with the girls so that they could go to school here. And so we moved to a part of the country that was nowhere that I was familiar with. So I knew no one, had no friends, um, didn't know the area at all. But I created a group of friends, and I'd only known this the group of friends probably for about six months before my marriage ended. But that group of friends just rallied and they still rally for me when I need them. And the power of the sisterhood is extraordinary, and so I don't, you know, in those initial days when it was all terrible, they it's that team of people that picked me up. And I think the fact that I was in a position to know that I what I needed, I think a lot of people maybe think, I don't know what I need, I don't know where I'm going. And I just was ready to hold on to any life raft that I could. And and actually they were all life rafts, and they're the ones that got me through it and put a smile on my face, I suppose. Kate Daly 12:25 I think you're right. I don't think you can underestimate the power of, you know, you said you needed your team around you, and the different people within that network play different roles, don't they? So you might have professional people, you might have the coach or the mentor or whoever, and then you might have a close group of girlfriends who are there, as you say, as that emotional life raft who will, you know, pick you up, take you for a walk, look after the kids, or you know, create a play date or whatever it is, or bring the wine round, or help with some of the more practical things. It is it's having that group that you can rely on. And sometimes I think this is where men in particular miss out a bit more because sometimes, not always, but sometimes the friendship bonds aren't quite so strong, and it's harder, less culturally acceptable for men to ask for that support. And we shouldn't underestimate the fact that you asked for support with a group of people who were relatively new to you as well. That's brave. That's really brave. How did you get the strength to reach out? Was it, I mean, maybe it was sheer desperation, but it feels or maybe it's part of personality, but what is it that kind of allowed you to reach out in those circumstances? Buzzy Randall 13:42 So I felt deeply humiliated by my situation. And there is stigma about your I felt very much when that my husband had had an affair and left me. And I felt that that was very much a reflection of me to begin with. And so, and he also left. Like, we didn't see him, he just wasn't then part of our lives. And so there was an element of explaining that I had to do at the school events and the school this and the school. Kate Daly 14:17 It was a hard exit, wasn't it? Really, it wasn't anything you you could gradually wind his presence down in any way. It was it was obviously very dramatic and hard. Buzzy Randall 14:26 Yeah, and you have to you have to explain why he's not there. So I was like, I have to face this head on, pull on my big garb pants and do it. And you know, there are terrible things happening in the world. This is not one of them, I can do it. And it was just, and it was actually just saying to everybody, yeah, this is this is what's going on, but we're gonna get through it. And everyone went, yeah, we're gonna help you get there. And it's amazing how how when you I think I think people really do want to support and show love and empathy. And if you're honest about it, that just comes in bucket loads. And I'm really glad I didn't hide behind it because I did feel such a huge amount of shame to begin with and humiliation. Kate Daly 15:17 And that why do we feel shame and humiliation for something that's not our fault and is a part of life and a natural process? I just don't understand. But we do, don't we? We all do, we all feel shame. But where does that come from, do you think? Buzzy Randall 15:32 I think it's a generational thing, and I think it ties back to another reason why it was so important that I ended the marriage, because we, I think, as women, we're often brought up to to feel that shame and to to be martyrs and to to do everything and and be everything. And there is a generational shift that's happening now. I think there's a societal shift and a cultural shift in in our roles as women within this society. And and also for men, like my my younger sister's husband does 50% of all the childcare, all the housework. I mean, it's incredible. They have this incredible setup that didn't exist when I first got married and had children, and and it's very much the norm now. And and so I think we have this this residual shame that's been passed down to us that it's humiliating and shameful that your husband has not, you know, has had to look elsewhere. It's in some way a reflection on you. Whereas I think that is that is gonna change. And and I hope that when my daughters get married, that that's absolutely not a conversation that's had. Kate Daly 16:57 It's funny because when you were talking before and you were saying you felt humiliated, I was thinking, why do we carry the emotional feeling for somebody else's choice or behavior? So somebody does something, in this case has an affair, and yet we take on the feelings of shame and upset. And that I think you're right, that is a cultural thing. There must be something wrong with us if that person has treated us in that way, not let's look at their behavior and critique their behavior. But what have we done wrong in order to encourage that behavior? And that goes through a lot of things around violence against women, sexual violence, all of those sorts of things. That same thread is woven all the way through, isn't it? And I think that's something that we have to, we have to try and teach this next generation, as you say, that that's not the cultural norm. And part of what you're doing, I guess, in the way you behave by saying that's just not acceptable, that's a boundary cost, is exactly that. It's modelling that new kind of behavior. So it's a really amazing story, a really incredible story to unpack. So I'm I'm really appreciative that you're sharing it. What do you think then? Thinking about that mentor that you had. So you've got your circle of friends who are doing the emotional hard work, the day in, day out, school gate stuff with you. What was it about having a mentor that helped you navigate, you know, the next stages and the next stages? What did it do for your emotional resilience, do you think? Buzzy Randall 18:28 Well, I think because we didn't know each other before. So, and and I suppose in an old-fashioned way, it would have been a pen pal. Like I've actually only met him in person twice, but we speak on the phone, like I said, every week. And it was having somebody who was completely neutral to my life and to my history, didn't know anything about me or my ex-husband, my children, or my family, nothing. We just had, and likewise me, him. And so we had this completely blank page with which to build the trust. So I was then able to choose what parts of my story were important to tell him at any given time. And and I suppose that's like any friendship, it builds over time, and likewise he did with me. And we now know lots about each other's lives, but he also there was no judgment, so there wasn't, you know, if I was like, I'm just having a really bad week, he just was like, I'm sorry to hear that. And that's kind of what I needed to hear. I didn't want to then get get into the the nuts and bolts of why I'd had a bad week. He was just like, Yeah, that that happens sometimes. Kate Daly 19:53 And he went, it sounds like he wasn't trying to fix you, like he wasn't trying to say, Yeah, oh well, if you had a bad week, then you're at this point in the process, and so you need to be going off and doing A, B, C, D. So it felt, it feels like it's almost, you know, you well, you're a psychologist, aren't you, as well? You it's like that creating those core conditions where you can be heard without judgment, and there's the space and there isn't somebody's agenda showing up or any of those sorts of things. So it feels like it was a really welcome space for you to be you in that moment. And like you say, to bring without the fear of being fixed, to say without the fear of being judged, all of that kind of stuff. That feels really quite important as like as part of that recovery journey. Buzzy Randall 20:37 Yes, I think it is important. I think, I think one of the big, the big things that that certainly I wasn't aware of was how your friend group changes in a separation. And I think it's only natural, but I look back on it, I'm like, of course, there are loyalties that are gonna go either way, and those loyalties can be based on history. You know, well, I people have known my ex-husband longer than they've known me, they're gonna maintain a friendship with him. At the time, I couldn't understand how that was possible. Knowing the choices that he'd made, I felt that that was unfair. But actually, of course it's fair. And people make their own choices in what whatever direction they go. And I think that I didn't lose friends, but I lost the connection, which was the fact that my husband and I were married and we were a couple, and therefore our friendship was based on that. So when that changed, that friendship changed. But in the process, I got a whole new group of friends. So where there's a loss, there's a gain. And I think initially that overwhelm that we talked about earlier. That is very much I was overwhelmed by the change in the friendships. And I wasn't because the new friendships were forming, I didn't see the strength in them. I saw the massive, the massive loss. Whereas now I look and I see the strength in those friendships as they've got stronger, as the process has gone on. And I valued those so much. Kate Daly 22:26 But you're describing loss aversion therapy, that loss aversion principle as well, aren't you? Where we feel losses way more keenly than we feel gains. But it's interesting that you say that gets moderated over time when you can look back at events and actually appreciate what you gained, you know, way more than worrying about what you lost as well. So it's we were talking, weren't we, just before we came on, before we came on air and hit the record button, this idea that you your story just develops over time. There isn't a one truth to the story. We're looking in at your story at this particular point in time and it looks a certain way. But if we came back and did this again later, two years, three years, five years, ten years down the line, then your story would sound and feel maybe different again, wouldn't it? So I'm really interested in this idea of how these stories unfold and you know that the timeline involved as well. So yeah, funny. You mentioned earlier that you've you've got two daughters, and you also said that you were living abroad. Was there an opportunity to co-parent then with the with the the girls? Or how did that all work? How did you sort of segue into this sort of having some kind of parenting relationship? Buzzy Randall 23:43 So that that for me that hasn't happened. So we don't co-parent. But also I must give credit to I I have a wonderful new partner, and he has stepped into the role of being a we're not married, but of being a step parent. I suppose where there was a vacancy for a male figure in the girls' lives, he's just come in and been completely wonderful. So he is with me on the pitch side and at the school events and on the weekends doing homework. Kate Daly 24:22 And how do you think the girls have adjusted then to sort of a new way of being? You mentioned at the beginning of this that you know nobody in your family was divorced, you didn't have any divorced friends. So have you found divorced friends? And therefore, is this kind of more normalized to them, or do they feel, I know you can't speak for them, or do you get the sense that they're they feel different? How does that part of it work in your family? How do you talk about that stuff? Buzzy Randall 24:51 Well, I think I mean we do talk about it. Yes, there was this huge change, but we're in the same house, we've got the same dogs, they're at the same school, you know, the school, yes, that changed, but it's day to day, it becomes a routine. Christmas still happens, birthdays still happen, you know, the all the traditions that the girls and I had always done, I maintained. And so then there it felt like there was a sense of normality undercurrent throughout it all. And I felt that was really important. That even though on the surface we all might be spinning out of control, there was this anchor that would just flowed with us. Kate Daly 25:40 I think it's so important. I mean, I I was listening when you were saying, you know, they were moving schools. Mine were very small when I went through this, and I can remember my nanny handing in his notice at the same time that we were moving house as a consequence of the divorce into a, you know, we're going from our nice, lovely house that we'd all shared to being in a kind of a small house and the nanny wasn't coming with us. That to me at the time felt like the worst thing that could ever, ever happen. I mean, I felt utterly bereft at this. And what I learned through that was actually, yeah, it was tough. But at the same time, the consistency is you. We are the consistency. And the consistency of love and showing up with love, even when those things that you can't control are happening all around you, whether, you know, nanny for me, schools for you, might be area, could be jobs, could be friendship groups, you know, whatever it is where we're all feeling totally distressed that our kids haven't got that consistency, it's us showing up with love and being the parent we've all always been. That's what actually keeps them on healthy, straight and narrow rather than anything else. And I sometimes worry, because you know, we talk about this a lot in the work that I do with couples where we're trying to keep everything the same and people are tearing their hair out about we can't move here, we can't do this, we can't change anything, you know, we the the dog has to follow the kids, we've got to have the gerbils here, there, and everything. You know, it's and it's it's all valid stuff. But it's us showing up with that love that really will protect them. So if you're in that position where you're being forced to change things and you don't want to, I would just say to people, don't give up because you showing up in your consistent way is the thing that will make the difference to the kids absolutely and totally. And I was just thinking of that when you were saying. So I was thinking about the my own desperately trying to cling on to something that's going to stay the same in a sea of everything else changing. It's it's frightening stuff, isn't it? It really is. Buzzy Randall 27:42 It is. And I think I think people do really, you know, like you said, who where's the gerbil going to go? You you fixate on something really small that isn't important as the most important thing ever. And and I think it's important that you have those things, but also it's easy to look back and say, they're not so important. But actually, what is important, like you said, is is you as a parent just being a parent and being real. Like I think a lot of people said to me, Oh, well, don't show your emotions in front of the girls and don't cry in front of the girls, and the whole concept of dignity must maintain your dignity. And I mean, I've I pretty much hung my coat of dignity up when I gave birth. So I'm I don't know when I picked it back up again. I don't think I did. And and I was like, this is the reality of the breakdown of the marriage, and that is that I will cry and I will have a bad day, and I will, you know, get upset about something really silly or or cry at an advert. That's the reality. I'm being me. This is what it feels like for me, and I'm not gonna hide that from you. I'm not gonna burden you with it, but I'm not gonna hide it from you because this is the reality. This is what being a woman is, and this is the consequence of the decisions that I made, but we will get through it. Kate Daly 29:11 And I think that's what kids need. They don't need you to be perfect, they need to see you trying hard, doing the best, regrouping, going again, and they need to know that that resilience, that ability to keep going is the thing that that sets you apart, not that you've got everything under control or that it's all perfect. I mean, you you were saying just then, it doesn't feel like it was a terribly long time ago when all of this happened, but yet here you are talking about it in the past with a life that you've reconstructed um and a successful career. How did you discover or how did you rediscover what you wanted? Um and now we're sort of looking at something different, having had to give up the hopes and dreams that you had had, how did you get to that point where you could really spend the time to rediscover to redirect your life? What happened? Buzzy Randall 30:11 Well, I think it's a work in progress. Um, and I'm still working things out. I mean, ultimately, uh it's given me the space to really reflect on, and this sounds corny, but my own self-identity, like who actually am I? What do I like in life? What do I want in life? Because I got married quite young and I had children quite young. And my future, like I said, I'd mapped it out with my husband. I that was it. I was like, well, I'm gonna grow old here. I'm gonna do, you know, this is it. I'm I've I've spent 18 years building this future. And so when you're forced to look at it and change it, you then realize I realized I didn't really know anything about what I wanted or who I was or what my hopes and dreams were, or what actually what I really liked doing. And that that whole in the last two years I've really learned that about myself. And and that's why I went back to education and did the masters, and I've done a beekeeping course, and I've done lots of cooking again, and it's a it is it's ever evolving. So it's not there wasn't one, I suppose one thing was the divorce and separation forced me to actually look in the mirror at myself. And I had to make those decisions for me. They weren't decisions that were made by my ex-husband or my ex-husband's family, or collectively, they were my decisions to make for myself. And actually, that's quite scary. Kate Daly 31:52 It's quite scary, it's quite a big thing as well. And we've sort of brushed over it almost in a sentence, haven't we? But that's quite a massive deal. Because if you've been socialized to make collaborative decisions, and that's part of being in a relationship, and we're told that's you know what we do, and of course that's what you do if you're in a relationship. But to suddenly then be the mistress of all of your own decisions, that's a that's a big shift and a big change, isn't it? Buzzy Randall 32:17 Yeah, and I think divorce really can knock your confidence. Doesn't matter what side of the divorce you're on, whether you're the man or the woman, the the the one the wrong or the one the right, it if there is that, it doesn't matter, you're gonna be affected, your confidence is gonna be knocked, it's gonna be painful, whatever. And to then to be in that scary place without much confidence, you realize a lot about yourself. Yeah. Kate Daly 32:47 In just a moment, Buzzy, I'm going to ask you to share some advice on getting started with the divorce process and some advice about imagining how you would fulfill the next bit of your life and how you start the next chapter. But just before I ask you those sort of two critical questions, if this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort, or just a tip that's made things feel a little bit more manageable, make sure to follow the divorce podcast on your favorite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. So, Buzzy, thinking back uh to the beginning of your separation, what are the things that you'd tell yourself about kicking off that process? How would you go? What would you say to somebody who's right at the beginning? Buzzy Randall 33:34 I think to breathe, which sounds stupid, but I felt that there was no, that I was suffocating, that I was, there was no oxygen in the room, and that everywhere I went sucked the breath out of me, whether it was a conversation with the lawyer or conversations with my family or conversations with my children, or even turning up at the school gates, I was like, oh, this is, and I think actually take a breath, pause, think about the what the next step is is in, okay, I'm gonna go to the school gates and I'm gonna face the mums, or I need to get a lawyer. How do I go about doing it? You know, there is there is panic at every at every corner, but there needn't be. If you just pause, take a breath, and try and stay calm, then you will make better decisions for yourself. And like everything, talk to people because people are a wealth of knowledge. That's how I had found my divorced mental friend. That's how the mums at the school gates will pick me up. It was talking to people and just saying, what advice can you give me? Or do you know a good lawyer? Or what do I do now? And people are more than willing to give their opinion, I can tell you. Kate Daly 35:04 Yeah. Shortage of opinions, absolutely. And then just finally, for someone who perhaps can't yet imagine how they're gonna fulfill the next chapter. So let's say they've started it and they're kind of bordering on where you've been more recently. Um, they can't really get to grits with the next chapter. What would you say to them? So they've bereft because they've lost how they thought things were gonna pan out. How do you go about creating that next chapter for yourself? Buzzy Randall 35:31 Well, I think, and I'm still in the process of doing that, it's about what feels right. And I've done quite a few job interviews, and and then I'm like, this doesn't feel right for me, actually. It feels right on paper, but the reality is something just like listen to your gut. And I was very lucky, and right at the beginning of my career, I knew that I wanted to go into a career of cooking, creativity, and hospitality. I knew that that was the thing that excited me when I woke up in the morning. And I've returned to that place of like, okay, what is it that is gonna fill me with excitement and joy, and I'm gonna be able to give my all, not okay, what's gonna give me the biggest salary because I'm in complete panic about my finances, or what is gonna give me the biggest sense of ego because I feel like I've got no self-confidence or no ego as a result of what's happened. It's about listening to your gut and saying, okay, actually, what is gonna be right for me, not what's right for my children, not what's right for my dogs or my house or my finances, what's right for me, for me feeling good about myself. Kate Daly 36:47 It's so interesting. So I'm what I'm taking away from this is that personal growth and resilience that comes after a split. And we did a survey recently as Amicable, and we found something really similar as well. One in four people actually reported that's exactly what you've described now, that sense of feeling that personal growth by focusing on what is right for me. So it's seeing it as an opportunity to reconnect with yourself and understand a bit more about yourself. So I think that's such a positive note to end on. I know if you're listening to this and you're at the beginning of it or in the middle of it, you know, you might not be feeling as optimistic as Buzzy and I talking about it. But there is hope and there is light at the end of the tunnel, and there is an opportunity to look deep inside yourself and find that personal growth and resilience after a split. So, Buzzy, I can only thank you tremendously for sharing your growth story with us today. It's been absolutely amazing. Where can people find out more information about you? Buzzy Randall 37:53 Well, I have my own podcast, as you've been a guest on with Amicable. So you can listen to um our stories, The Big D with Ate and Buzzy, which is actually morphing into the big D presents, uh, where we'll have lots of new guests and um a whole new season where we have um a similar just a conversation about divorce and about breakups. And I mean, this is where Amicable is so amazing, is that it's not, it doesn't all have to be hideous. It can be done nicely and calmly. And and that's why I loved our conversation with you. Um so anyone could listen to that episode either with Amicable or on the big D. I'm on Instagram and yeah. Happiness. Kate Daly 38:38 And don't forget, for separation and co-parenting support, you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free advice consultation. You can find me on LinkedIn and Instagram, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. Now we'd love to know how we can help further, so please share questions on divorce separation and co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk, as we're always looking for ideas for new episodes, and they very well might just point us in a new direction that we haven't yet covered. So please do that. You can also join our subscription platform called amicable apace, and there you can find our community forum, which is a safe place to ask anything at all as you go through separating or co-parenting. Members get free access to our monthly Q&A webinars with amicable's divorce specialists, and you can ask questions in real time on that platform. The link to sign up is going to be in the episode description, so please go there for further information. Buzzy, what a joy it's been. Thank you ever so much for joining me, and thank you everybody for listening. Thanks, Kate. --- ## Episode 208 — In brief: what’s a divorce ring? Published: 2026-08-19 · Duration: 10 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-divorce-rings > If you've seen the headlines about 'divorce rings' and wondered whether they're a passing trend or something more meaningful, this episode is for you. If you've seen the headlines about 'divorce rings' and wondered whether they're a passing trend or something more meaningful, this episode is for you. In this in-brief episode, Kate unpacks what's really behind the rise of divorce rings – and why they're about a lot more than jewellery. In this episode, we cover: - What a divorce ring actually is - How reclaiming choice and identity plays into the trend - The difference between behaving amicably and feeling amicable, and why that gap is completely normal - Kate's own way of marking the end of her marriage This episode is for anyone going through separation or divorce who's looking for their own way to mark this chapter, and for anyone curious about why this trend is getting so much attention. ## More divorce resources ### **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep208_divorce_rings&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Kate Daly 0:00 Divorce rings aren't necessarily about the jewellery. They're more about identity, independence, and marking a new chapter. And humans have always used objects and rituals to mark big life changes. So what's interesting here is that people are actually creating their own rituals around separation and divorce. Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, the relationship counsellor, divorce specialist and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. In this in-brief episode, we're talking today about divorce rings. Are they a trend or is there something more meaningful behind this piece of jewelry? So what's the story? Well, I've been quoted in a BBC article about the rise of divorce rings. I've also been talking on the radio today about what they mean and whether they're a trend or not, or whether there's something a bit more long term. So what is a divorce ring? Well, it's usually either a ring people buy or it's the redesign of an old wedding or engagement ring, and it's meant to symbolize the end of the marriage. Sometimes it's that people want to take their jewellery and repurpose it totally. So you might actually, although we're calling them divorce rings, it might be a divorce necklace or a divorce earring set. So there's a whole bunch of different ways, but essentially what people are doing is taking the end of the marriage and creating a ritual or a symbol around it. And I think it's much deeper than it being just about a piece of jewelry. Divorce rings aren't necessarily about the jewellery, they're more about identity, independence, and marking a new chapter. And humans have always used objects and rituals to mark big life changes. So what's interesting here is that people are actually creating their own rituals around separation and divorce. And I think what this trend really signifies is that more people are prepared to talk about something that's deeply personal and that perhaps in the past has been a source of shame or stigma. But now things are changing and people are much more open and prepared to talk about what comes next. And I guess a ring can look like a really small thing, but after a divorce, it can carry real meaning. For some people, it marks the point at which they start to make decisions about themselves or for themselves again. And that's not about being bitter about your ex or wearing the ring on your middle finger as a symbol of kind of stuff you. It's about recognizing change and making a choice about what comes next. Now we all know that when a relationship ends, everything feels like it's up in the air. Your home, your money, your children, your identity, future plans, everything is affected. And a divorce ring can be one of the first visual outward signs that someone is making those decisions for themselves again, emotionally and financially. It means really that for some of us, we are actually back in control and signalling to the world that we're back in control. And that's super important. There has been lots of criticism, people saying, oh, it's just a flash in the pan, a one-off trend, or it's a bit indulgent spending money on yourself and on jewelry. But I get it, it can feel like that. But I think we should be less inclined to judge. I don't think people are doing it to be self-indulgent. I think people are doing it to recognize that one chapter has ended and a new chapter has started. And one of the things I kept coming back to when I was asked today on the radio was this idea that it's not about being bitter. You know, having an amicable divorce doesn't mean that you haven't felt the pain or the hurt. It doesn't mean that you've glossed over things or that, you know, you haven't taken this whole thing seriously. Having an amicable divorce is the difference between feeling genuinely amicable, which might take months or years, if ever, to come, and behaving in an amicable way. So sometimes those behaviors come first. And what I mean by that is sometimes we have to almost fake it till we make it in the world of amicable divorces. We might have to behave in a certain way that we don't necessarily feel deep in our hearts, but we know if we want our children to thrive after a divorce or separation, it's in their best interest that we behave in a certain way. And sometimes the ritual of behaving in that way over a period of time can help to move you on psychologically. So, yes, it can be really tricky, and yes, it can end very much with feelings of sadness and everything else, but that doesn't preclude you from having an amicable divorce. At amicable, we want to change how people navigate relationships, particularly when they're starting them or ending them. So whether that's getting together when you're cohabiting for the first time or prenups, or whether it's parenting after separation and big conversations that you need to have with your ex. The common thread here is that we try and do these with kindness, clarity, and less conflict. And if it helps to mark the end of a relationship and to put to bed that phase of your life and to start a new chapter and a divorce ring is a way of doing that, then I'm all for it. I don't want to judge everyone's divorce is different, but I do think there's an opportunity to actually make a symbol because ultimately the way that the process works now, we don't have that symbolism anymore in the divorce process. You'll just get an email at the end of an administrative process from the government to say that your divorce is finalized. And when that lands in your inbox alongside the email from school about sports day or end-of-term arrangements, or it gets mixed in with your work emails about deadlines and presentations and everything else, it can feel really anticlimactical. And you want to mark this end of a relationship. And just because the relationship has ended, it doesn't mean the relationship was bad. Relationships end for all kinds of reasons. So marking the end of it doesn't mean you have to regret the relationship, and very often people don't, particularly if they've got children. So I think having a way of symbolizing the end, whether that's through a piece of jewelry or a ritual that you make or whatever it is, I think that can be really important in helping you process the change that you're going through and mark the transition from one relationship to the next. So, like I say, it's not really about the ring. This is about people finding a way to mark a change, to reclaim choice and to move forward with some clarity. And I think that's what the divorce rings are all about. Now, with my personal journey, I didn't repurpose my jewelry and I didn't create a divorce ring. What I did was to sell my ring because I moved into a house, I had to downsize like most people do. The house was in a terrible state. And so I used my ring to furnish my house and to do it up. So every time I looked at the newly painted walls or the curtains or the cushions, all of which I'd chosen for myself without any compromise because my kids were very little, it was a really lovely feeling. I knew that I'd repurpose that ring to make a home for me and the children moving forward. So that was another way of actually symbolizing the end and ritualizing the end of a relationship and the moving on to the next thing. So however you choose to acknowledge the end of the relationship, whether it's with divorce rings or whether it's with another piece of jewellery or another act, however you do it, it's really important just to take the time to breathe, to acknowledge what's come before, to acknowledge where you are and to look forward with some hope. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation about divorce rings. Check us out on socials where we talk more about this phenomenon. For separation and co-parenting support, you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free consultation. You can find me on Insta and LinkedIn. You can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com, or of course, you can find us on your favourite listening platforms. Now don't forget, we'd love to help further and we'd love to know any questions or ideas for new episodes. So please share those at hello at amicable.co.uk. One final reminder: you can join our subscription platform, which is Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum, a safe place to ask anything as you go through separation, divorce, or co parenting. Members get access to our monthly QA webinars with Amicable Divorce Specialists, where you can ask questions in real time. The link to sign up is in the episode description. Thank you very much for listening, and I'll see you again soon. --- ## Episode 207 — Comedian Jess Robinson on finding love again after separation Published: 2026-08-12 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/jess-robinson-divorce-dating-blended-family > What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut - and discover that everything you went through was leading you somewhere better? What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut - and discover that everything you went through was leading you somewhere better? In this episode, I'm joined by multi-award-winning comedy impressionist Jess Robinson to hear her honest and uplifting story of separation, starting over and finding unexpected happiness as a stepmum. In this episode, Jess talks about: - What the end of her marriage looked like, and how she processed it - The shame she felt around her separation, and how she moved through it - Dating again, and how she met her husband - Building a blended family, and what the stepmum role really means to her - Why going through hard times can lead you exactly where you're meant to be This episode is for anyone who's been through a separation and is wondering what comes next - especially if you're navigating new relationships or a blended family. _⚠️ This episode contains some adult themes so please take care while listening_ If this episode resonated with you, follow The Divorce Podcast for honest, expert support whenever you need it. ## Meet Jess Robinson [Jess Robinson](https://www.jessrobinson.co.uk/) is a multi-award-winning comedy impressionist and classically trained singer recognised as the UK's pre-eminent female impressionist. A household name in comedy and impressions since her viral Britain's Got Talent semi-final in 2017, she has since starred as lead voice artist on Spitting Image, appeared regularly on Channel 4's The Last Leg and BBC's Dead Ringers, and performed to sell-out crowds at iconic venues including the London Palladium and the Royal Albert Hall. She is also an experienced voice artist, lending her talents to Aardman, DreamWorks, Netflix and Disney, and hosted the British Podcast Award-winning show Stars In Your Ears. You can [learn more about Jess on her website](https://www.jessrobinson.co.uk/), and follow her [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/jessrobinsonofficial/) and [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/jessrobinsonofficial) to stay up to date. You can also catch her show, ['Elton Reimagined'](https://www.jessrobinson.co.uk/live-shows/), in Edinburgh this August - [book your tickets today](https://assemblyfestival.com/whats-on/jess-robinson-elton-reimagined). ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep207_jess_robinson&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [press@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Jess Robinson 0:00 I texted a friend of mine who had been through a divorce and I just said, I just feel like I'll never be happy again. I don't know how I'll ever be happy again. And he said, You will. I promise you, you will. And you, I could not believe it at the time. I honestly couldn't. Things were so dark. I was so down in the weeds. But if this is happening to you, it's possible and you will be happy again. And you've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other, just small steps, one day at a time, one hour at a time. Kate Daly 0:37 Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships, separation, and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, or you have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'm Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service separating couples. In each episode, we look at relationships and separation from different angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined by experts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, and tips with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. What happens when you finally stop ignoring your gut? And what does life look like on the other side? Today I'm joined by Jess Robinson, multi-award-winning comedy impressionist, to hear her honest story of separation, dating again, and finding unexpected happiness as a step up. We talk about shame, new beginnings, and why all roads really do lead to here. A quick heads up about this episode. It contains some adult themes, so please take care of yourself whilst listening. If you loved this episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listening platform. Welcome, Jess. Thank you so much. It's super lovely to have you on the show. Thanks ever so much for joining us. Let's start then with a bit about your story. So, at the beginning, how did you meet your ex-partner? Take us back to when the marriage ended. What was that period like for you? Jess Robinson 2:19 So we met in a sort of a comedy sketch group, and I thought that he was beautiful and very, very funny and silly, and I just loved his sense of humor. And I felt like we had a lot in common. And then over about eight years in all, we were together, but only married for the last sort of 18 months of that. We had a house together, we didn't have any kids. But actually, when I spoke to my therapist about it once the relationship was sort of ending, my therapist said, When was the first time you really, if you look inside yourself and you're really honest, what is the first time you knew that it wasn't quite right? And actually, it was very, very, very early on, very soon after I met him. I knew in my heart of hearts that something was not quite right, but I ignored it because I thought that I was for some reason it was a limitation. It was something to do with me. It was my problem. Why, you know, I thought I was too traditional, too prudish, too this, too that, too vanilla. And I wanted to be more exciting and I wanted to be more wild and cool. But actually, I am quite traditional. And so I really shut a huge piece of myself away and didn't give it any credence, I guess, because I thought, yeah, so I changed myself really and my values because I just loved this guy so much. And I thought he was so brilliant, so exciting, so wonderful. And I think he also felt probably that he had to change himself to be with me and meet me in the middle of it. But that was much easier said than done for him. So what ended up happening was it turned out that there were a lot of secrets and a lot of things that came out after the marriage. And actually, even before I actually walked down the aisle, I remember looking out of my kitchen window at the garden and thinking, I don't know if I can do this forever. But even then, the hope is so strong, and you just sort of I ended up just ignoring the red flags, the warning signals. Yeah. The warning signals, yeah, because I just, this guy in every other way was so brilliant. And all our friends who didn't know anything that was going on because I kept it all very secret myself, they all just said, Oh, you're so funny together, you're so great together. And so it was, I felt like I'd be disappointing absolutely everyone, not just him or me or our parents or whatever. So it just kept going and going until something happened or was said that I I couldn't ignore. And actually, it was such a relief in the end. Kate Daly 5:16 It's so interesting when you say that because it's it's it's a brave thing to say, I think, that on some level you knew quite early on, and even before you got married. But I wonder whether that's not the truth for quite a lot of people, and just some of us aren't very good at admitting that. But it just really resonates that you say, I think on some level I knew. Jess Robinson 5:39 Yeah, I didn't at the time, and I would not have admitted it at the time. I don't think I, but I think it's really important to have a little bit try and have a bit of accountability to not just be a victim. Because in being accountable, it actually, although it's gnarly and painful to look at, it also ends up giving you a bit of strength. Does that make sense? Kate Daly 6:04 Yeah, it does, because it's that line, isn't it? Between I might know that everything isn't perfect, but where does that line of perfectionism meet? This is good enough, it's got enough legs that it might well last and we'll work at it. And that's the blurry bit in the middle, isn't it? So, you know, I don't suppose very many people go into a marriage thinking this is absolutely as perfect as ever I have. Absolutely, I'm 100% no doubt. Maybe they do. I don't know, maybe I should speak for other people. But it just strikes me that everybody must at some point it must cross their mind to question. And where does questioning become a genuine red flag or doubt that you ignore versus something you say, okay, this is this has got enough legs to give this a go and to see where we get to, kind of thing. And I just, it's so hard to find that line. It's interesting the way you describe it. Jess Robinson 6:59 Yeah, I think I don't know who taught me, maybe my mum, maybe just from looking at other people's relationships, I knew that compromise was really important. But I think possibly I compromised myself a bit too much. I was a bit too much of a people, I'm a recovering people pleaser anyway. And it was way I was not giving enough weight to the stuff that wasn't right and giving maybe too much weight to the absolute fun, the laughter, all of the good bits, where I thought I'm never gonna meet someone else who makes me laugh like this, you know? Yeah. Kate Daly 7:35 And I think it's fascinating as well that you talk about just that sense of the things that you were compromising on that actually turned out to be pretty significant values? What kind of things were that important that you were prepared to say, oh, that's fine, because you were together for a while before you married. So, how did you cross from being not married to married? And did the act of being married focus something, which ultimately ended the relationship? Because you do hear about this quite a lot, don't you? People will live together for a long time, they'll marry, and then then they'll split after the marriage. Jess Robinson 8:11 So once we got married, there was a death of someone very close to him and his family. And um, trying to choose my words carefully, but basically, again, I I found myself there was some behavior from him, and what I ended up doing was convincing myself again, this is because of grief. Uh, he's not thinking straight. And when I did finally confide in someone, when the words came out and I heard them as if for the first time, I just knew, oh my gosh, this is not tenable. This is absolutely not tenable for me. Kate Daly 8:53 That's interesting, isn't it? That act of saying it out loud, of of repeating it as a narrative, actually sort of almost shocks you out of a stupor you're in when you're in a relationship with somebody and gets you to focus and say, if I was hearing that from somebody else, that would be a big red flag or a big warning bell. Jess Robinson 9:11 Yeah. And I had always said, you know, with my friends' relationships or people on telly or whatever, I wouldn't put up with that. I would never put up with that. Also, I wasn't telling anybody. I just, I just pretended that that part of my life was sorted. Yeah. So so it took a lot for me to, and I was amazed at myself. I'm still amazed at myself that I ignored so much, willfully ignored so much. Kate Daly 9:38 But I think that's a very human thing, isn't it? We all ignore things when it doesn't fit with our kind of narrative of where we are in life and what we're doing. So tell me a little bit about the the breakup. I don't mean the details of why you broke up, but what kind of divorce did you have? Jess Robinson 9:54 How did you go about that? We were on a sort of a make or break holiday. And he finally said, I'm gonna say what he said, because it was the real turning point. He said, I don't find you sexually attractive, and I never have. Oh wow. And that was a terrible thing to hear, but I also felt like, thank God, that's what I needed to hear. And I called my sister and I said, Can I come home now? I told her, she was like, Yes, get on a plane. And so I needed to hear something. I don't know if he even meant it to sound so harsh. I think he was just being trying to be honest or something. I don't know. But that was what I needed to hear for me to just get on the plane. My mum and dad picked me up from the airport. I went back to theirs, I had a cry, and the next day I started filling in my divorce. It so happened that my big sister, while I was doing this, knocked on the door and my mum opened it and she had all teary eyes, and she had just left her husband as well. So wow. Yeah, mum consumed about half a bottle of brandy that night. Feeling for your mum in that scenario rather wrongly, maybe. But and dad was just being, you know, shocked and very good humoured about it all. And I felt very, very lucky that I had a family that I could talk to. But then obviously, then all of these things came out and the stuff that I had been hiding. And everybody was shocked and surprised and amused and horrified. And it just all happened very fast. I I sent off the divorce. I went and got a a black fur coat, fake fur coat, so I looked like a divorce, a widow. I don't know what I was doing. I made some very strange decisions. You're playing the punt. Yeah. I think I went on guardian soulmates almost a week later, just like I must fix this immediately. So, yes, it was it was quite bonkers, and and I moved pretty fast. But once I had made the decision, I was ready. And it felt like a huge relief. There's a tiny voice in me when he said that, and I knew that I could come home and leave. A little voice in me said, Yes, this is what I've always wanted, as though a dream had just come true. Kate Daly 12:20 So you got that sense of relief, that sense of being able to move on, of living a true and authentic life, all of that kind of stuff. Yeah. It must be kind of weird then, if when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, when you know, when you're actually not feeling sorry, you're feeling there's a sense of relief. Jess Robinson 12:37 Yes. The thing that I felt the most actually, my biggest, biggest overwhelming feeling was shame. Kate Daly 12:45 Oh, okay. Jess Robinson 12:46 Because I felt I had betrayed myself so much. And I had, there were so many people saying, Why didn't you say? Why didn't you tell us? We would have said, you know. And I just had such shame that I was seen as this strong person who always said, I wouldn't do that. I'd never take that. And I was doing it all along, taking it all along, and I felt very, very stupid. Kate Daly 13:12 Oh, that's interesting. That's a harsh thing to say about yourself, isn't it? I felt very, very stupid. What drives that? Why do we feel like that as strong, confident women? Why do we still feel a sense of shame? Jess Robinson 13:24 I felt shame because I thought I'd wasted everybody's time. My dad, we we did the cheapest wedding we possibly could, but it was still, you know, £8,000 at the time. And that was my dad's money. And, you know, when I knew and admitted that even before I got married, there was a tiny bit of me that knew it wasn't right. I felt accountable for that, I guess. And um, I just felt like I'd wasted time, I'd wasted people's goodwill. I'd I'd just been stupid. And I'm going to ask you whether you still feel that now. I'm conflicted. I want to say no, I don't. But I think if I'm being kind to myself, which I think I must be, I think the the idea and the hope and the sort of the idea of of a filmic sort of romance made me a bit blind. I don't know if that makes any sense. But um yeah, wildly hoping, willfully ignoring I don't know. Kate Daly 14:29 But I guess my view feeling of it is is more that all roads lead to here. And maybe when you come on to tell us your the next part of your story, I can ask you that question again then. Because we can only get to the paths that we eventually find by treading the ones that come before that, can't we? So without anything that happened before, you wouldn't be here now with your life as the way it is now, and the incredibly successful career and personal life and everything else. So let's go back a step then and tell us. So you went through you you got your divorce to organized. It sounds like you were terribly organized and you had the presence of mind and the support to be able to get on with it. And yes, it feels like it was a real like everyone does it differently. There's no right or wrong, but this one feels like a plaster being ripped off, focused on it. You knew this is where you were gonna go now, and off you went. So you come out the other side of divorce. Jess Robinson 15:28 Yes, within about less than two years. Kate Daly 15:31 Okay, so that's very good going by all accounts with all the people that I talked to and see. Yeah. Jess Robinson 15:37 Yeah, yes, it was it was very, I mean, it wasn't painless, it was horrible, but it was a plaster being ripped off. You're right. Kate Daly 15:45 It sounds logistically amicable then. So logistically, it was amicable, you didn't go to court, you got everything sorted, you didn't have children, as you mentioned, so there wasn't the added complication of that. So you come out the other side, and it sounds like you were fairly desperate to replace and uh with a relationship, was it? You said you mentioned guardian soulmates pretty quickly. Jess Robinson 16:10 Oh my gosh, I think I doubled my numbers the next, you know, in the year after that. Because I think also because of what he had said about you know not being sexually attractive, and I think I wanted a point to prove and desirable. And yeah, I had a huge point to prove. Luckily, my numbers weren't that huge before, so we're all right. But I went, I went on so many dates and I moved into a flat on the other side of London and sort of went a bit uh off the rails a little bit. I think I was very, very sad and just trying to put a plaster over a wound which needed actually probably a bit of stitches, if you see what I mean. So I did a lot of yoga, I did a lot of drinking, I wrote a car off from divorce exhaustion. Oh, it was ridiculous. But in the end, I came out the other side. I couldn't have done it without my amazing friends who really did all rally around me. And then, of course, I made a show about it as well, which everybody said, Yes, is that a good idea? Is that a bit too soon to be sharing everything on stage? But it actually was my way of processing it. So I was gonna say, was it a form of therapy then? Lots of comedians who did just say the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Just people had to pay to come and see me do my therapy. And it probably had more lights, it had more impressions in it than others. But yeah, and I was getting stronger, and I had a lot of anger that I had to deal with, and I had to work out sort of where to put those feelings. Suddenly I was so angry towards him, and it's very I and that stayed with me for a few years, but it's got less now, and well, it's not there at all anymore, which is amazing because what I really learned from the whole experience was to always, from now on, never ever ignore my gut feelings, never do that ignoring and be really true to myself. That was a huge lesson. Kate Daly 18:23 But it's interesting what you say about it being such an important life lesson. Um, and that the importance of actually understanding how you work and committing to listening to your gut instinct rather than driving it down. I think that's so interesting. Jess Robinson 18:40 I mean, it's taken another 10 years to practice it and actually speak up for myself, even if I've recognised the feelings. Kate Daly 18:46 But yeah, but that's part of the process, isn't it? The first step of any change is to recognize what's going on, then to be able to name it, and then to practice doing the small first step of doing something about it. It takes, it does take a lot of time and a number of years to actually get good at something. So I it sounds like you've been on an amazing journey. What you know, what when you were dating, do you think you were able to practice some of that as well? Was dating about practicing or was it about scratching a niche? Jess Robinson 19:15 A bit of both. It was seeing what it was like to be on the apps because that wasn't there before. So, and that very the novelty of that wore off extremely quickly. That's exhausting and it is. You met some very weird. Kate Daly 19:30 It's a full-time job, I think, isn't it? Jess Robinson 19:32 Trying to deal with all the messages and the slightest thing. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, overwhelming. It was interesting to meet the different people that I thought this is what you could have won, you know. Maybe I want someone really wealthy, or maybe I want someone who's already got, I don't know, a business. Or maybe I'm, you know, it was interesting to just see who was out there. And very quickly I became jaded and just thought, that's it. I've had enough now. So that's enough. And that's when my friend called me up and said, I've got tickets to a show tonight. My friend Handsome Johnti is playing. Do you want to come along? And I said, handsome not Johnti. He said, Yeah, he's single. I said, nope, I don't want to meet anyone. And my friend said, Well, you get a free dinner. So I said, Okay, I'll come. Okay. Fair enough. And um, and that's when I met my husband, my now husband. Yeah. Kate Daly 20:29 So it wasn't a conscious decision that you were ready for a relationship, it was fatigue with just dating and a desire to uh a comfort of being on your own almost. Jess Robinson 20:40 Yes, exactly. I actually knew at that point I I very much was not ready for a relationship. I didn't want one at all. And then I met Johnti. Yeah. So he was also divorced, same sort of time period as me. He had a little boy who had just turned five, I think, when I met him. And I just said, you know, we we just started very slowly. I said, I I can't commit to anything. I can do one date at a time. That's all I can say. And then it sort of turned quite quickly, actually, because there was absolutely no pressure. We didn't want to see anybody else, but we just didn't want to well, I didn't want to say it was anything. I just wanted to spend time with him. Then it was one month. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was one month at a time. And yeah. And by end of 2016, I think, I had a boyfriend. And then I was married by 2019. And this is from both of us had said at the very beginning, never want to get married again. Absolutely not, never doing that again. Kate Daly 21:55 Wow. Jess Robinson 21:56 Yeah. Kate Daly 21:57 So from free dinner to boyfriend. To husband in the space of three years, then? Jess Robinson 22:03 I mean, yes. And again, you know, my friends around me this time I was being very open. And they were all saying, Jess, this is very fast. This is very soon. This is, you know, because I think the relationship with practice husband, as I call him, ended in 20, I want to say 2015. So by the end of 2016, I'd met Jonti. Yeah. So that it does feel very fast, doesn't it? I did a lot of therapy. Kate Daly 22:33 I was gonna say, when did the therapy pick come in? Jess Robinson 22:35 Aside from obviously bearing all on stage, but I had was having regular therapy once a week from the next day that I came back from that holiday, straight into therapy. That sounds like it was a good decision. Kate Daly 22:50 It must have accelerated the healing process. Jess Robinson 22:52 I think so. But I also think I've supported it maybe. Supported it for sure. And I think even uh uh through 2017, 2018, before Johnti and I got married, I think I was still, there was still healing and working things out to to do. And I know there are still things from Johnti's first marriage, which are still things that are still sort of old wounds or bruises, let's say, that you know, because there are still things that can be slightly triggering or bring up old feelings or things like that for sure. Kate Daly 23:26 And do you think you had a different set of conversations when you were thinking about getting married for a second time than the first? Jess Robinson 23:34 Yeah, I think so. But also when I started getting together with Jonti, I was so focused inward. I was so cautious and careful and really trying to name and look at every single tiny feeling that came up because I was so determined to not do any ignoring or any brushing under the carpet again. So I was really, I was journaling and I was, I mean, probably almost psychotically, just you know, really, and he and he gave me so much space and he was so that I I would, he is the kindest man I have ever met. He's so kind and steady and gentle and gave me so much space to be able to do that. Kate Daly 24:28 And it sounds like you must have mirrored that back, particularly if he's got a child, and so for him, he's making a commitment on behalf of both of them, isn't he? Him and his son. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess what he's mirroring, and you're mirroring back what you both need, which is although it feels very fast, you're doing it at your own pace. Jess Robinson 24:50 Yes, it did feel like that. There was a lot of such a lot of talking and communication and really good, honest chats. I wasn't introduced to my stepson now till quite far in when we knew it was something. And even then, I was just introduced as daddy's friend, you know, just just to take things slowly and and cautiously. But uh what was that like? It was good. I think the main thing that Johnti and I agreed for that was that he's the center of attention. He should feel like a special guy. So it's not really about Johnti and me. It's about us making together making him feel really special and just having a wonderful time. We went in the sea and we went on the pier and we had, you know, it was just a lovely day out. And it felt good. I had never thought that I would end up with somebody who already had a child and who was 13 years older than me as well. There's a big age gap. So that was another thing to navigate that I thought I would end up with a, I don't know, a businessman, the same age as me this time, and had a helicopter, and you know, but but no. But it really actually really proved to me that it really is about the person and not the material things. Yeah, the labels. Yeah. Yeah, not the labels, none of this my type on paper, you know. It's just it's about values, having similar values and a similar sense of humor all also helps, but values and honesty, I think. And I love being a step-mum. I love it. Kate Daly 26:28 Well, I was gonna say, how have you navigated that journey then? So tell us a little bit about that. So from a first meet to marrying and therefore becoming a stepparent, and what's what has that been like? Jess Robinson 26:39 Never been under any pressure to call me mum or or step mum or anything. There was a conversation early on when he, you know, I said, You can call me, you can call me Jess, you can say I'm your friend, you can you can call me whatever you like. And he decided on cheeky stepmom. So we've gone from that. It's worked really well, actually. It was it was funny to begin with. I was introduced to mum, and that was slightly awkward and weird, but actually, she texts me now, and I'm gonna drop him off early. Will he be in that sort of thing? And we just have a a back and forth, and it just feels really nice. And I'm not trying to be his mum either. I think that's really important. I do co-parent a bit. I mean, I'm there to do school pickups and dinners and and things like that. But the thing that I can do the best with him is, for example, tutor him with his English or help him with his music. Or the other day I helped him write a speech. And I love being able to do that. I love being able to be involved and be someone to turn to if he needs to talk, or just someone to hang out with one night and watch films and eat eat sweet, you know. It's lovely. Kate Daly 28:00 It's like he's got an extra person, isn't it? That's what I think is so lovely about the whole step-parent culture is you've got your parents and then you've got some extra people who also want to. Cheerleader. I mean, who does need an extra cheerleader? That's that's just that's what is the magic of step-parenting. I think where it where it gets intense is where you're trying to replace roles and there's a power battle that becomes really tricky then. But I think if you can be the cheerleader for the child, then what an amazing role. Jess Robinson 28:34 That's it. And I never knew whether I really wanted my own children or not. But this seems to have, if we're putting it into its very most minimal way of describing it, it's scratched an itch. But it's really given me so much. I love helping him. I love watching him develop. I love it when he's naughty and cheeky and being witty. And it it he's just brilliant. He's a really brilliant boy. And I love seeing his confidence grow as well as he grows into a really great young man. Yeah. He's awesome. Kate Daly 29:09 So I'm gonna go back to that question then um that I asked you earlier. Jess Robinson 29:14 Oh. Kate Daly 29:14 Um do all roads lead to here? Do you feel over the shame? Yes, I do. Actually. Would you have that relationship with your stepson and your husband if you hadn't come on the journey you've been on? Jess Robinson 29:31 No, I absolutely. Kate Daly 29:32 I don't mean would you have met them? Let's assume you would have met them anyway, but would your relationships feel like this had you not had your previous experience? Jess Robinson 29:39 No, I don't think so. And I think had I not had my previous experience, I probably wouldn't even have entertained a relationship with my husband. I wouldn't have probably not. I and that feels very that feels like don't don't let that pass you by. Don't don't do that. Kate Daly 30:01 Because it's it's wonderful. So your your previous experience, the the road you've travelled up to that point and the shame that you felt and been able to overcome has got you to a point where you've been able to keep your eyes open to something that naturally you'd have had them closed to, then maybe. Yes, I think. I'm just, you know, I just find this whole thing fascinating. I don't hold on to a sense of shame and regret for very many things ever. I just regret just not rightly or wrongly, just not an emotion I'd personally hang on to or have. Because I don't think any of the good things that I've got now, I would have unless I'd traveled that road. And that's how I kind of maybe I just square being a really terrible person in previous life. I don't know. Who knows? But that's kind of how I look at it. And it it just strikes me that, you know, what you're describing now, your ability to make that connection as a step parent and to have the relationship you've got with somebody who you wouldn't in the in your sort of previous life trajectory have entertained, come into contact with, given a second thought to, just feels like it's given you a richness that you wouldn't otherwise have had. Jess Robinson 31:18 I wouldn't change it for anything. And yes, that's exactly right. That is exactly right. A richness that I wouldn't have had is such a fab way to put it. And I wouldn't change it for anything. It feels so lovely to be in such a little, we call ourselves a little pack without dog Brian. It feels, it feels like a very special little family. Yeah. Kate Daly 31:41 That's such a lovely story, Jess. Really is lovely. In a minute, Jess, I'm gonna ask you to give us your sort of top tip for entering a new relationship post-separation. But just before I do, I just want to say if this episode has given you a bit of clarity or comfort or just a tip that's made things feel a little bit more manageable, make sure to follow the divorce podcast on your favourite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. So, final tips then, Jess. What's your biggest tip for somebody on the other side of the separation process who's thinking about dating again or starting a new relationship? Jess Robinson 32:21 Keep checking in with yourself. You don't want to close yourself off to new experiences, and maybe it's good to have a few practice dates and practice saying, no, that's not okay for me as well. No, I don't like that. That's quite empowering in itself. But yeah, keep checking in with yourself and maybe do some journaling. I always find, or I've found at the time as well, what went well always helps. Just three things that went well that day, even if the date was a disaster, even if it's just, you know, I got there on time, I felt that it wasn't right, and I listened to my feelings, you know, or something like that. One of the things that really stuck with me when I was just coming out of the relationship and so, so, so low. I texted a friend of mine who had been through a divorce and and I knew had a girlfriend, and I just said, I just feel like I'll never be happy again. I don't know how I'll ever be happy again. And he said, You will, I promise you, you will. And you could, I could not believe it at the time. I honestly couldn't. Things were so dark. I was so down in the weeds. But if this is happening to you, it's possible and you will be happy again. And you've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other, just small steps, one day at a time, one hour at a time. Kate Daly 33:47 Oh, that's amazing advice. And you know, we did a survey recently, and we know that nearly half, about 45% of men and women are dating again within a year. And if you're Gen Z, it's probably around 60%. So you can do it. People do get back out there, and getting back on the horse feels like it's a real kind of key to just, and like you say, it doesn't have to be the next big relationship, just getting a bit date aware and going on a few dates to see what it's like. That's what my co-founder always used to say to me, because I was a real procrastinator and I didn't date for ages. She's just like, it doesn't have to be the love of your life. You can just go on a few bad dates. That's not the end of the world. So I think if you just sort of think of it like that, just get on a few bad dates, you'll be okay. Jess Robinson 34:29 Yeah, I nearly didn't go on, I nearly didn't go on a date with John T when he asked me. And my mum said, Oh, go, go and be treated nicely, go and be taken out for dinner. Why not? And so I did, and and I stood there in the went down to the ladies' loos, and I was pinching myself, literally pinching my arm to make sure that I was really there because it was so wonderful, and he was so nice and he so understood me. So it can happen, but take it slowly, and you don't have to call it anything until you're ready and pinch the label. Yeah, exactly. Kate Daly 35:05 Yeah. Jess Robinson 35:06 Yeah. Kate Daly 35:06 Listen, that's all we've got time for today. I can't thank you enough for joining me. Where can people find out more information about you and what are you up to? Jess Robinson 35:14 They could find me on my website, jessrobinson.co.uk, and I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all the other ones. I am currently touring and going to the Edinburgh Festival with my show, Elton Reimagined, and it's all Elton John songs reimagined through the voices and styles of some of my favorite pop divas. So we've got Britney Spears doing but Benny and the Jets, and we've got Amy Winehouse doing Tiny Dancer and Kate Bush doing goodbye, yellow big wood. And um it's really uplifting. It's a slice of joy. If you heard, I tell you what, if you hear me on the the divorce podcast and you need a bit of joy, then just get in touch and I'll give you a discount code if it's fantastic. Sounds brilliant. That's that's what we all need right now. Kate Daly 36:06 Yeah, slice of joy, a slice of joy in Edinburgh. I cannot think of anything better. It sounds wonderful. So thank you. Don't forget for separation and co-parenting support, you can visit us at amicable.co.uk where you can find our resources or you can book a free advice consultation. You can find me on LinkedIn and Insta, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com, or you can find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help for others, so please share any questions on divorce or separation and co-parenting with us. You can do that at hello at amicable.co.uk. And don't forget you can also join our subscription platform, Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum. And that's a safe place to ask all sorts of questions as you go through divorce or separation or co-parenting. Members also get access to our free monthly QA webinar with Amicables divorce specialists. So look out for that. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jess. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thank you for being so open and candid. I'd love to thank you, everybody, for listening. --- ## Episode 206 — In brief: Can AI write your consent order? Published: 2026-08-05 · Duration: 18 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-can-ai-write-your-consent-order > Cutting out the solicitor and letting AI draft your consent order sounds like a money-saver. But this is the legally binding document that settles your finances for good - and getting it wrong could cost you far more than you'd save. Cutting out the solicitor and letting AI draft your consent order sounds like a money-saver. But this is the legally binding document that settles your finances for good - and getting it wrong could cost you far more than you'd save. Kate is joined by two members of the [amicable](https://amicable.io/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description) team - Divorce Specialist **Lucy Huscroft** and Head of Product **Hugo Ostyn** - to unpick where AI genuinely helps with a consent order, and where you need an expert’s help. We talk about: - What a consent order is and why it matters for a clean break in divorce - How AI can help with your consent order – and where it's best used - Why a person still beats AI when it comes to consent orders – and main limitations to watch out for This episode is for anyone tempted to use AI to sort out their divorce finances, and who wants to understand where it helps and where it could go wrong. ### **Mentioned in this episode** - _R (Ayinde) v London Borough of Haringey_ [2025] EWHC 1383 (Admin) — a UK High Court case where AI-generated, fictitious case law was put before the court, leading to wasted costs orders - _Mata v Avianca, Inc._ (2023) — the US case where lawyers submitted AI-hallucinated case citations - Research by Fanous et al. (2025) finding that leading AI models changed their answers close to 60% of the time when challenged - King's College London research on people turning to AI for help: around one in seven have used AI instead of seeing a GP, and one in five who use it for health advice say it discouraged them from seeking professional care ## ## About our guests **Hugo** is the Head of Product at [amicable](https://amicable.io/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description). With over 10 years of experience, he has helped both startups and established companies build and launch new products. He brings a user-first mindset and a data-driven approach to help make divorce kinder and more transparent. **Lucy** qualified as a Chartered Legal Executive specialising in family law and practiced in law for several years before joining [amicable](https://amicable.io/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description). Lucy uses this experience to ensure customers get the best possible result for their own unique circumstances and that of their families. Lucy's experience in family as well as conveyancing means she is super practical in helping people consider the implementation of their agreements. ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on the legal side of divorce and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep206_ai_co&utm_content=episode_description) includes a dedicated chapter on demystifying the legal process – from no-fault divorce to consent orders, translated into plain English so you can make informed decisions with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Lucy Huscroft 0:00 I think the pitfalls of using a tool like AI to draft a content order is AI is a little bit like a Labrador, so it likes to try and please you. And that's the temptation of using it because you like what it says, but occasionally it can get it quite wrong. Kate Daly 0:22 Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news and events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Hugo Austen, Head of Product at Amicable, and Lucy Huscroft, negotiation specialist at Amicable, to talk about using AI to draft your own consent order and the pros and the pitfalls of that idea. Welcome both. Lucy Huscroft 1:04 Thank you, Kate. Kate Daly 1:04 Hi, Kate. Lovely to see you both. Thanks so much for joining me. So this is a bit of an Amicable Love In today, and we're going to talk about consent orders and the impact of doing your own consent order through AI. But before we jump into that with lots of debate, let's just unpick it a little bit and start, Lucy, with what's a consent order? Lucy Huscroft 1:25 Yeah, so a consent order is a legal order made by the court. Typically, it's about two spouses who are separating their finances, and the court can make that order at the conditional order stage. At that point, the court approves an order that the customers or the wife and husband have put to the court, encompassing all their financial agreement. And at the end, typically speaking, it has a clean financial break on both capital assets and income assets. So it really does draw a line in the sand upon everybody's finances so they know how to move forward independently. Kate Daly 2:04 Right. So it's seen as a good thing to make sure you've got everything settled and sorted. It's legally binding. People can't go back on it, change their minds, unpick it. It's done and dusted. And that's that's what an order does for you. It creates that, as you said, what we call a clean break. It means it's done. No one can go backwards. Yes. It's very certain. Okay. And so it's better to have a consent order and you have to get that drafted traditionally by a solicitor. Now amicable's here. You don't have to go to a solicitor. You can have it drafted through the amicable process. It's still legally binding. It passes through the court in the same way that any other order would be drafted and passes through the court. But now there's a new kid on the block and it's not even a human, it's AI. And it sounds like the temptation is for lots of people to use AI to draft a consent order so they can cut out having to pay someone else to do it. So, Hugo, what does AI do when it comes to consent orders or what can it do? Hugo Ostyn 3:08 Thank you, Kate. So I think what it can do. So first when we talk about AI, like AI can mean anything. Like you have Cloud, you have ChatGPT, you have pretty much AI in everything we do, you know, in Google. So I think what when people are going to AI for the consent order, normally they would go to ChatGPT, ask it a few questions, and try and think see what the AI says. So what it's really good at usually, AI, like as a generic use case, I think, is help you build a narrative. So as in you write something for some information and it will polish it and it will frame it in a way that works. So in that sense, I think that's a big part of consent order with Box 13, where you have to explain why you've put you're suggesting that separation of the assets. And so AI is pretty good at helping you frame that in a way that will be and make sense to the courts. I think it works quite well as well as the sounding board. So like people will go and put something they're not sure about and like ask AI question and like AI to call through it. And I think that works quite well for that, for that purpose. So there are two use cases where I think AI works really well on COSET order. Kate Daly 4:10 So you mentioned that box 13. So for people who are maybe at the beginning of this process not quite familiar, when you submit a consent order, you also have to submit a form called a D81. And in that D81 form, there's a box, box 13, that asks you why you think the settlement you are proposing to the court is fair. So I guess what you're saying is you can put in your reasons and then you can ask AI to say, does that seem fair? And what do I need to understand about how the law works to know what the law considers fair rather than just what me and my ex think is fair? Hugo Ostyn 4:46 Exactly. That's what's something we've used internally to try and poke holes through the argument. And it's pretty good that that based on case law, it will try and find uh gaps in your in your arguments. Kate Daly 4:55 So then, both of you, where does the AI fall down then? Is it as good as a human at drafting a consent order, or what are some of the pitfalls that people need to be wary of before they all go off and get their AI drafted consent orders? Lucy Huscroft 5:11 Yeah, I think the pitfalls of using a tool like AI to draft a consent order is AI is a little bit like a Labrador, so it likes to try and please you. And that's the temptation of using it because you like what it says, but occasionally it can get it quite wrong. And there have been sort of cases in court of people using AI to draft things like statements, and it has hallucinated case law. And I think most recently there were two solicitors who found some costs against them because they had used AI to help draft position statements. So that's the risk. And if you think about a broad statement, a statement can be drafted by a person not easily. Obviously, it requires legal expertise, but an order is even more intricate and tricky and complex because it has different functions within it. So to layer that on top and then to ask Chat GPT or Claude to create a consent order for you, it may go off on a tangent based upon the prompts or the instructions that you've given it that aren't quite right. And if you're asking the court to make that order and they make that order as a result, you may be left with something that possibly isn't what you wanted it to be, essentially. And here you go. Hugo Ostyn 6:31 I would agree with Lucy. I think the way I see AI for consultant, that like there are three types of limitations. The first one, they're inherent to the tool itself. So, like Lucy says, it's very sycophantic. So the study where they ask just by asking the question, like, okay, AI will say something, then you ask it, Are you sure? And in 60% of the cases, it will change its mind. So that gives you a bit of like it will that shows you how confidently it will say things and then how happy it is to change its mind, just without any reason. So there's that. Then there is how you use it as well. So AI, like the two person using the same tool will not use it in the same way. Like, so for example, once you're aware of those limitations, so you know that it will tend to agree with you, then you can counteract that and say, like, please make sure like you you probe into my argument, or like you try and like make sure it goes, it has a more give you a bit more of a negative pushback. So you can like so that's the way that's the first limitation, how you use it and how knowledge how confident you are using it. The other limitation is the information you give it. So regardless of how good AI is, in your consent order, there will be information about your properties, your pensions. If you give it the wrong numbers, it doesn't matter, matter how good it is as writing an archive around those. If they're wrong in the first place, it won't know, it won't have the context. So that's the other limitation. And the third one, I think, is domain knowledge. So if you're not a legal expert, you do not know like, well, it might sound very good and it might sound like it's perfectly drafted, but you do not know what you don't know. So without the domain knowledge, you have no way of checking that what I has written is actually relevant to what the court is expecting. So I think, yeah, those three limitations really are the one I've come across the most when using it. Kate Daly 8:11 And I guess the the thing that on that second reason, you're right, you could be putting huge amounts of very personal data out there, aren't you? If you're putting, I mean, to draft consent orders, you need a lot of personal information. You need names, addresses, you need numbers off your bank statement, you need the numbers off your accounts, sometimes you need car registration number plates. There's all sorts of personal information that needs to go into a consent order. So I guess, you know, the other note of caution to sound is that are you really happy giving away all of this personal information at this point? Because that to me feels quite scary. Hugo Ostyn 8:54 Absolutely. And I think they've seen so all the what one setting, especially if you're using the free version of ChatGPT, is that they will use your conversations for training. Now, as a I would trust them to like not just leak absolutely everything you put there, but that doesn't mean that one small bit you're like some clever hacker might find a way to get your information. So one thing, for example, that people had found was the software developers were uh were using it to code to build a website, they would use AI to kind of have them write code. And one thing they figured is they noticed was that AI, when they started typing password, the AI was seemingly autocomplete, the password to some pre-existing one, which no one knows it for. So like whether it's actually was a real password or not, I'm not sure. But there are this kind of like warring sounds like, oh, maybe it's not fully uh secluded to what to my conversation. So yes, I think it's uh by default, it's better to be cautious. Kate Daly 9:48 And Lisi, I think you were saying as well, weren't you, that you know, it takes a lot of expertise to actually be able to draft a consent order properly because you're layering on precedents that have been set. You're looking at the individual circumstances and why they might depart from something that the court or the case law would say was the norm. And we're trying to create something that's very bespoke and individual to families, which I know you feel really passionately about. So I guess that's another area of concern, isn't it? Is that you get something quite generic that might not suit your circumstances. And then, as you say, if the court seals it, there are very few options for unpicking that you might be left with something that has unintended consequences. Lucy Huscroft 10:34 Yeah, and with each part of an order, when I explain them, I see a consent order as a bit like a book. So it's got an introduction, which is the definitions and the introductory bits. It's got a plot, which is the undertakings and the orders, and then it's got a conclusion, which is the clean break, hopefully order capital and income. But all of those different functions have different legal meanings in terms of enforceability. So not only could it completely get something wrong, you could think that you've come to a legally binding agreement upon a particular aspect of your agreement, but it might not be in the right place in relation to that book. It may be in the recitals. And I mean, even in the recitals, they can sometimes be legally binding, sometimes they can't. They're a bit of a uh a sort of when you look at them, if you are legally trained, you would know whether the court could enforce that. She know whether it could be legally enforced later on. But equally, if you were a layperson asking AI, it may not quite understand parts of your agreement that you want to be legally tight, depending upon the prompt that you give it. Whereas if you're talking to somebody amicable or you're talking to a solicitor, they would be able to tell you how the order works and the sort of general functions of the order. Whereas AI may miss that point, creating again confusion and unenforceable clauses within the order that you didn't want. And like you say, they're very tailored towards individual family circumstances. So there's no sort of generic consent order as such, because they're all sort of wildly different, unless it is just quite simply a clean financial break, that even that in itself, you know, you are still completing, as you've pointed out, a D81 form. So even that is unique to the people who are entering into it. So to ask a generic site what the answer is is quite tricky. And like I'd say, you wouldn't necessarily know if parts of the order was in the incorrect place unless you were legally trained to understand that. Kate Daly 12:47 I guess ultimately we would say this, wouldn't we? If we're in a legal drafting service, we are going to think that this isn't such a good idea. What's the counterargument to that then? Is it a good idea? Lucy Huscroft 12:58 When is it a good idea? I suppose the counter-argument to that is that the law is meant to be in place so that everybody can use it on an even playing field. So everybody is able to access that, not just somebody who is wealthy or not wealthy. And I suppose AI to a certain extent opens the floodgates for people to have knowledge in hand. I know that they asked ChatGPT if you were to, you know, solve one problem in the whole world, what would it be? And apparently it said, I would make it so that I could explain everything to people on a level that they could understand, because a lot of people misinterpret what is being said. And that's telling, isn't it? That that's you know how it's currently being used and how it could be used. It could be a really positive thing for the future, I think. And I think it's um better to embrace it rather than not, in my opinion. Kate Daly 13:54 And Hugo, from your perspective, what's the case for AI then? Hugo Ostyn 13:58 Yeah, that's what I would say, like similar to what Lucia was saying. So there there is a study recently about what people are using it for, and it's always the same type of topic. So, like medical issues, health issues, psychotherapy, and again, consent orders. Like, I mean, not consent orders as a popular topic, but legal matters. And when you think about what those have in common, like so, first, like it's they're usually expensive if you want to go to a doctor or to a lawyer or psychotherapist. They're sensitive topics, like you don't want to chat to anyone about those, and then they're complex. So I think AI is like an entry point for those topics that have matched the three conditions that can really be helpful to people. Now, as with any tool, it's knowing its limitation and knowing one know actually, like you're not gonna treat your whole disease through Chat GPT. At some point, you need to escalate and actually go to a doctor. So I think it's it's that is kind of knowing, like we should you be using those tools, just being aware of their limitation and when you do need actual expert advice. Kate Daly 14:56 But it sounds like they're, like you say, they're a good starting point. They open the door, they get you on a similar page, they might help you narrow the sort of field of negotiation, I guess, as well, which from our perspective definitely helps if people feel that they're closer together to an agreement before they even come to us. That makes the world a lot easier from our perspective. Super interesting. I'm conscious of time. Now I'm going to ask Hugo and Lucy to give us one top tip for using AI to do these kinds of legal tasks. But just before I do, if this episode has been helpful in any way and given you a bit of clarity or just a bit of comfort or a tip that's made things feel a little bit more manageable, then make sure to follow the Divorce Podcast on your favourite podcast app. Each week we're here with expert advice and real support to help you through your separation one step at a time. Okay, final tips from Lucy and from Hugo. Lucy, just in terms of safeguarding yourself, knowing the limits of AI, when to get an expert, what are your top tips? Lucy Huscroft 16:00 I think my top number one tip would be make sure that your prompts are as detailed as you can possibly make them. And my second tip would be do not use AI at the moment to draft legal documents. Please come and see a professional amicable because there is a high risk of you making an error. And Hugo from you? Hugo Ostyn 16:20 Yeah, a more generic tip for me on using AI, I think, like, and again, one simple phrase that I found goes like helps improve massively the limitation of AI is before getting it to run off and do what you asked it to do is say, ask me clarifying questions, and it will really help with that before it's spinning and running for three minutes and giving you something that you didn't expect. Just asking those will help not only refine your thinking, but also give it a more precise explanation of what it's after. Kate Daly 16:48 I found it it's yeah, day and night when uh that is such a game changer because you told me that tip a little while ago, and it has definitely changed everything I do with AI. And it you're right, because sometimes the biggest part of the process is you're limited by your questions. So actually, when it interrogates what you really want and gets you down to the kind of nth degree of what you're really trying to achieve, you do get a much better response. That's incredible. Well, listen, thank you both. It's been amazing to have that chat with you today. That's all we've got time for. The separation and co-parenting support. Don't forget to visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our resources or book a free advice consultation. Yes, you can speak to a human for free. No AI here, chaps. You can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn. You can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com or find us on your favourite listening platform. Now we'd love to hear how we can help you further. So share questions on divorce, separation, and co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk. And also you can join our subscription platform, Amicable Space, where you'll find our community forum, which is a safe place to ask questions as you go through a separation or co-parenting. Members also get free access to our monthly QA webinars with amicable divorce specialists just like Lucy. And you can talk or ask questions in real time. The link to sign up is in the episode description, so find it there. Thank you, Hugo. Thank you, Lucy. It's been fab talking to you, and thank you, everybody, for listening. --- ## Episode 205 — Spotlight: Making summer holidays work as a single parent Published: 2026-07-29 · Duration: 20 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/spotlight-summer-holidays-single-parent-tips > This week, we want to revisit a particularly helpful episode with Jo Thurston from Parent Talk to discuss why summer holidays can be so tricky for single parents and share some simple tips for making them more manageable and fun. This week, we want to revisit a particularly helpful episode with Jo Thurston from [Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) to discuss why summer holidays can be so tricky for single parents and share some simple tips for making them more manageable and fun.  Without the school routine and longer days in the sun, it’s an important time to create new memories and enjoy new activities with your children. However, summer as a single parent can be challenging when you’re doing all of this solo. It might involve more schedules, additional childcare and juggling high expectations.  Kate and Jo start by explaining why summer holidays can be challenging for single parents, and when’s a good time to start planning them. There are also some tips on how not to over-plan!  Here are some of the points they cover in this episode to help single parents this summer: - How to navigate holiday costs - Where you can look for affordable activities to fit your budget and available time - Communication tips with your co-parent - Staying flexible and willing to adjust your schedule - Why involving your children in holiday planning could be a good idea ## ## Meet Jo Thurston  Jo is a co-ordinator at [Action for Children’s Parent Talk service](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/), which offers free online advice for parents and carers of children aged 0-19, or up to 25 where a young person has special educational needs. Its confidential 1:1 live chat service connects parents and carers directly to an experienced parenting coach for judgement-free practical advice and emotional support, while its online articles answer some of the most common parenting questions.  Jo first joined Action for Children in 2018 as a Family Support worker in a Children’s Centre. She has a background working in schools and pastoral care and has a particular interest in supporting families impacted by SEND. ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and  building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep205_summer_holidays_parent_talk&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Jo Thurston 0:00 But I would say in terms of the summer holidays, we have people who feel uncomfortable because they can't afford to take the children away, maybe, and the other partner can. So it can bring on a little bit of parental guilt and a bit of pressure to try and do lovely things and fill the time up. Also trying to find childcare or clubs or activities, I think that's that's very difficult. And if you're on your own and you have the children all summer holiday, you know, that can be really difficult to negotiate with work, having enough time off or being able to find things for your children. You know, money is a big concern at the moment for virtually everyone. Kate Daly 0:37 Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our new mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news and events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. This week, I'm delighted to be joined by Joe Thurston to discuss why summer holidays can be just so tricky for single parents and some simple tips for making them more manageable and more fun. Joe is a coordinator at Action for Children's Parent Talk Service, which offers free online advice for parents and carers of children aged naught to 19 or to 25 where a young person has special educational needs. Welcome, Joe. Hi, thanks for having me. Well, it's lovely to see you. Thank you for joining us. I know that most parents, whether they're single parents or not, probably face the summer holidays, that long summer holiday, with a mixed bag of emotions, be that intrepidation, fear, or, you know, a sense of fun and enjoyment, and it's an opportunity to do different things. But let's start then by just answering the question: why are the summer holidays just so tricky? Jo Thurston 1:57 I think it's um a number of things, but primarily probably the length of time is difficult for most families, especially if you've got young children, so you still need to be at home with them or you need childcare over that period of time. We know schools finish quite early. There's normally, I think, between sort of six or seven weeks of holiday, that's a a lot of time to have to fill. Fantastic for the children, maybe a lot more pressure on the parents and on the costs. I mean, it's an expensive time if you're trying to do activities and fill the summer up with fun things. And again, if you're single parenting, a lot of that will fall onto one adult rather than necessarily, you know, the ease of being in a a larger family. Kate Daly 2:39 If you are a single parent then, when do you start planning the summer holidays? I'm I'm going to assume that most people will expect they've got to plan it rather than just turn up at the end of July and hope for the best. But you know, that is an option. But but let's let's say that most people are going to put some element of planning into it. When do you need to start planning? Jo Thurston 2:58 I think it's like part of your ongo. I mean, if you're co-parenting with the other parent, then I think that would be part of your ongoing sort of co-parenting arrangement of how you're going to, that would be something that could be worked on right from the start, really. Who's having the children when in the holidays mark out that time so you know when you're responsible for them and when the other parent is responsible. Um, I think if you're working and you're going to need to find childcare or activities for the children over the holidays, again, as soon as possible. I think it's one of those things that if you can, you should try and think ahead and plan ahead as much as possible so that there's there's things in place. I think that some of the clubs and things probably get quite booked up quite quickly. So having a plan is really helpful. I think, I mean, it doesn't work for everyone like that, and it's not impossible to get through the holidays without having pre-prepped and what have you. But it certainly does make life a little bit easier. And also with the costs, you can have a set of budget and start to research what you can be doing with them and holidays abroad or holidays in this country, whether that's practical. So there's a number of things that you can think about in the run-up, which will make the holiday feel a lot easier, I think. Kate Daly 4:10 And I know, you know, when we talk to people, obviously we're talking to people at the point of relationship breakdown. So sometimes the holidays that we're prepping people for, it's the first time. And it's really odd, isn't it? Because you might have come up with an arrangement that works during term time, and then all of a sudden you get to the summer holidays, and that it kind of doesn't work anymore, does it? And you have to be having those conversations with your ex and thinking about not just who's going to have the children when, but also, like you say, the cost, because it's all very well if you've agreed that one of you're having more of the children than the other one. But then there's a huge cost implication if you're doing summer camps because you're both working, even if you've agreed on the time split, you need to go back and have that conversation about cost, don't you? Because it's not fair that one person bears more of the cost than the other. So it's, and I think it sometimes catches parents out, particularly if you're the parent that hasn't necessarily been involved in the day-to-day arrangements previously. I think it can be a real shock to the system when you realise just how much some of these camps and things cost. Jo Thurston 5:18 Yeah. Yeah, it is, it's a huge cost, isn't it? Luckily, there are things that you can do locally in most areas that are low cost. But yeah, definitely having that communication between and not everyone is able to communicate in a positive way with their ex-partner or the other parent. And in that case, I think that's something that, you know, if you're having mediation prior to separation, you might want to start thinking about how you're going to allocate time in the holidays on your parenting plan and how you're going to address those things at the costs. So I mean, you could get that um all written down on your plan already. So if communication is difficult, then it would be good to have a plan right from the start of when you start to work out contact arrangements and what have you. Kate Daly 5:57 Yeah, no, that's a really good tip because sometimes you're right, it's easier when you've got that third neutral person there in the room to have some of these conversations and to test out. Because people often think different things are fair and they have different expectations. And it's it's not that necessarily one person's trying to be difficult, but you you're just coming from it from your own perspective sometimes, and therefore having that third person able to talk you through what you can do and how you can do it just allows you to have a dialogue without it escalating. And I think that's really valuable. And of course, at Amicable, we offer separating with children services, and you can book one of those sessions, they're 90 minutes, they're 310 pounds. You get um access to a specialist coach as well. So you can go through your parenting plan and create that and make sure you've hit all those buttons as Joe was just saying. So, what kind of questions do you get on your helpline or in your live chat, sorry, Joe, about the summer holidays? What are some of the typical things parents want to know? Jo Thurston 7:00 We definitely have some issues around sort of contact and communication with the other partners. That sort of simmers away throughout the year, really. But I would say, in terms of the summer holidays, we have people who aren't feel uncomfortable because they can't afford to take the children away, maybe, and the other partner can. So it can bring on a little bit of parental guilt and a bit of pressure to try and do lovely things and fill the time up. Also trying to find childcare or clubs or activities, I think that's very difficult. And if you're on your own and you have the children all summer holiday, it you know, that can be really difficult to negotiate with work, having enough time off, or being able to find things for your children. The you know, money is a big concern at the moment for virtually everyone. So being able to find free activities, we talk to parents a lot about um where they can get some support, where they can find some free activities in their area. And the other thing that seems to come up quite a lot, particularly probably more in line with single parenting, is when the children throw a curveball at you and maybe don't want to do the plans that you've arranged or what have you. Kate Daly 8:08 That is just dynamite, isn't it? Because it's that's a real nightmare. Because sometimes the other parent thinks it's you that's stoking them up to say stuff and it can all get very messy. So how do we handle that then if that's something that raises its head? Jo Thurston 8:21 I think that's another. I mean, it this is all really based on whether you can have really good communication with your ex or whatever that looks like, is it you don't necessarily have to be able to have face-to-face conversations, but just to have any communication stayed as child-focused, you know, what we'd advise to parents is keep the children at the centre of this. It's their holiday, it's really important to them. And it's important to us as parents that they're happy and that they feel that they can make some decisions themselves as well. So if they're starting to want to be with their friends instead or, you know, do something when you should be doing something with them, I think having a bit of adaptability and a bit of flexibility is really, really helpful. But like you say, if if sometimes that can feel to the other parent like you're in some way trying to stop them from seeing the child or spend time with them. But I think if you can involve children in the decision-making process, that can be really helpful and listen to their voice. And you know, even if you're lucky enough to all be able to communicate together, for both parents to ask the children what would you actually like to do this holiday or if you're with me, what have you got any plans you'd like to do this week? And just listening to them and accepting that sometimes they may want to do things that don't fall into your pre-planning. I think that's really uh yeah, I think that's really helpful. It just keeping the children in mind is is really important in all of these plans, really. Kate Daly 9:42 Well, children's voices get lost so often, don't they, when people are divorcing and separating. So I think that's a really, really valuable point. And I think you can ask kids from surprisingly young age in an appropriate way, can't you, about what they want to do and how they're involved they want to be? And you can suggest things, and there's ways of asking children that help them process that sort of information too. So because I I as soon as when you were talking, I was thinking, I wonder if people are wondering at what age you can involve and ask the children and what's too young, and because that normally comes up as a question for us. So is there any guideline to it? Or is it about knowing your kids and and just involving them appropriately? Jo Thurston 10:23 I think yeah, if you know your kids and and you is difficult, probably the younger they are, the harder it is to have that kind of conversation. And and to be fair, there's probably less demand from the children to want to do things outside the family when they're younger. It's as they get older that you generally tend to get that separation where your teenagers would rather be in their room than going for a walk or might want to be with a friend instead of coming to stay with you on your allocated night. I think if you do have whatever the discussions you do, you can do it with younger children in a kind of role-play kind of a way. So it's, you know, that you're just gauging their feelings about it without actually directly asking them. And looking at similar situations in books and stories and talking to them about, you know, what what m what did that make you feel? Are you happy with the way the holidays are going? And as they get older, obviously it's it's really important to then involve them in the planning discussions, I think, so that they feel that they've got some control in the situation as well. And just being appreciative that it can be quite difficult for children going backwards and forwards between different homes and different settings as well. So having that understanding of how those transitions might work, especially because it's a different routine to the school time routine. I think that's that's important to keep the children happy and the holiday a little bit calmer. Kate Daly 11:36 And I think like you say, it's noticing if they're not happy, isn't it? And just then being able to gently inquire. Because it you are right, kids love routine, don't they? And they like to know what's happening when. So I used to do a bridge spreadsheet and I'd print it off for them, and it was all coloured in. And do you know what I mean? It would be like, Look, this is if it's yellow, you go into this camp. If it's red, you're doing this, you know. Do you know what I mean? It was all a bit, you know, make to amend kind of thing. A bit blue peter, actually, it was. I remember doing it one year when they were a bit old and they're just looked too hard to do that. And you're just like thinking, oh yes, this is the bit that I missed. I got all my spreadsheets and hadn't actually asked them. I just carried on assuming that they were little and portable and they'd do exactly what I had planned on the spreadsheet. So it's a very good lesson, isn't it, to just be able to gauge and check in how it's going and whether they need a bit more involvement in it. And and like you say, we have to appreciate there are lots of different co-parenting relationships out there. Some are very good at communicating, others are not, and it can be difficult. And I like that point about it's just trying to remember to be a bit adaptable, not to assign evil intent and motive if things don't go exactly as you'd imagined with your partner, but just to try and stay adaptable and to try and think about what the kids actually want in all of this. And I always think this all kind of it tends to even out. It feels very tense when they're very little about wanting to get the same amount of time and all the rest of it, but it does relationships ebb and flow, and there'll be points in your child's life where they'll want to spend more or less time with you, not because you're separated parents, just because that's how kids roll, whether they're in a family where mum and dad are together or not. And I think it's just trying to bear some of that in mind and take the heat out of it sometimes that's important. Absolutely. You mentioned, I'm just going to pick on one other thing. You mentioned about how difficult it can be with work. Just, I mean, people have the right to request family time, don't they? Can you say a little bit about that, just in case people don't know? Jo Thurston 13:41 Yeah, I think that um we'd always suggest that if you were worried about that or the situation or your holiday and leave policy, that it's worth speaking to your employer as soon as possible and just gauging what you're able to do, what you're able to take, and how that will work. So we we generally encourage parents to speak to their employer if they're worried about the length of time of the holidays and how they're going to do that and work out a plan with them if at all possible. It's just, I was just going to throw another point in from what you were saying as well. So we talked a lot about like booking the clubs and doing lots of activities and what have you. I think it's really important to also bear in mind that children quite often start the holiday really tired from the end of school and the end of the school year. And sometimes we overplan and we actually we can plan so much that they're exhausted and they stop enjoying it at the beginning. So I think you can be a bit kinder to yourself if you've got the time with them to not necessarily need to plan every day and every activity, because actually it's um sometimes it's the nicest days are the ones where you all sit in the garden on a blanket and have a picnic or you know, chill out in the house, watch some films. And those can make the happy memories for the kids, and it's not too much pressure. So there are things you can still do, you know, at home and make it special and make it memorable. So I I guess there's a balance between over planning and and that can be difficult because as a parent, we just want them to enjoy the holidays, don't we? And we want to enjoy our time with them. Kate Daly 15:06 So yeah, and I bought just building on that point as well, I think there's a lot to be said for spontaneity, she said, knowing that she's the world's biggest planner. I mean, look if anyone's listening to this that knows me, they'd be laughing their heads off now. I said that. But there is, you know, you can just get up without a plan and just get on a train and just see where it takes you. And there are small things like that. But yes, there is a cost implication. But if you pack a picnic and you just get off a stop and you explore a new area or you do something, you're building quite a lot of skills in your kids to do that tolerance of risk, a tolerance of uncertainty, uh and it's okay not to plan. You know, you can do those sorts of things, can't you, when you've got the time, and it's it's lovely then not to have to feel that, as you said, everything is planned and scheduled within an inch of his life, which is how kids' lives are run these days. So you've got to, and I'm part of that, I'm not saying I'm any different, but I I fantasize that it might be nice to be a bit more spontaneous. Jo Thurston 16:04 Sometimes those are the best days as well when you when you just do something like that. So, yeah, that's a good uh good tip, I think, for parents. Kate Daly 16:12 And I think the other thing is boredom. I think boredom is a really underrated thing, and we never let our kids be bored. My kids have no concept of being bored anymore. But when I was a kid, listen how old we sound, but when I was a kid, we used to be bored all the time. It was just part and parcel of life, wasn't it? Coping with the boredom. So I I don't if my kids ever said they're bored now, I'd literally probably do a little rain dance or something. I'd be so excited at the the prospect that they'd felt this new feeling. But yeah, I suppose with phones and everything, it's a little bit more, a little less unlikely. Any final tips for parents who are confronted by the summer holidays looming? Jo Thurston 16:52 I think talking to your support network, know who you can reach out to. It can be really difficult when you're parenting alone and you can feel quite isolated, and then when you've got the children as well, that can be quite impactful to your well-being and what have you. I mean it's it can be lots and lots of fun, but the pressure is all falling on you. So if you've got some supportive friends and family, that's brilliant. You know, use them. Most people will want to help you if you ask them and explain the situation. It's not always the easiest thing to ask for help, but it's it's really important to reach out to the people who would want to help you. And then, you know, if you're feeling like it's something more than you could cope with or you haven't got somebody that you can reach out to or talk to, then come through to a service like parent talk because it's really good sometimes to just be able to express what your worries are, what your concerns are, and have someone sort of listen and just help you work out what to do next and how you can manage that situation. It gives you that time to just pause and think and evaluate and then make a plan or a decision. And I think try and take the pressure off yourself as much as possible, because generally kids will have fun with the smallest of things. And it's great to, like if if they are bored, it's great to start encouraging to use their imaginations to create their own games and scenarios and and what have you. And it's a good thing for children to be able to do that. So try and take the pressure off yourself and try and have a good plan in place and make sure you have a little bit. I say make sure as if it's easy, especially as a single parent, but trying to have a little bit of time for yourself because you need some downtime too. Kate Daly 18:30 Good, good tips. I always think the best way of getting downtime as a single parent is to find your tribe. Because if there's another single parent out there that you can make friends with with kids of a similar age, then that is like gold dust because they just get it. You don't have to explain. They know all the cost things, they know all the hacks for doing stuff cheap, and they'll have your kids and you can do the little swaps so you can get that little bit of downtime. So find your tribe, I always say, definitely. But the action line, the live chat is absolutely brilliant service. So I highly encourage anyone listening who is contemplating the summer holidays as a new single parent or even in a one who's tried and tested, then please reach out to them because it is a fantastic service. And as you say, just being able to offload to somebody is just such a fantastic thing to do. So thank you ever so much. I've really enjoyed chatting to you today, Jo. Where can people find out more about you and the service that you offer? Jo Thurston 19:25 So if they look online, they need to type in parentalk at ActionForchhildren or parentalk.org.uk and they will bring up the website. The website is fantastic. There's so many good tips, hints, content pieces on there that that do cover a lot of, they don't cover everything, but that's what the one-to-one chat is for. So then if you if you do feel like you just want that voice and someone to guide you and help you and help you work out what you need to do next or what you want to do. If you log on to their website and then click onto the one-to-one chat, you should be able to talk to someone. Kate Daly 19:55 Brilliant. That's great. And of course, you can hear about new podcast episodes. You can find out more about the upcoming podcast by visiting thedivorsepodcast.com. And if you're looking for specific support around co parenting, then visit our amicable website at amicable.co.uk where you can explore our free resources and you can book a free advice consultation as well. Thank you so much, Joe, for joining me today, and thank you, everybody, for listening. Jo Thurston 20:24 Thank you. --- ## Episode 204 — In brief: The history of the family court - and why it matters Published: 2026-07-22 · Duration: 25 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-history-of-the-family-court > Children were once seen as their father's property. So how did we get from there to a family court system that tries – however imperfectly – to put their welfare first? Children were once seen as their father's property. So how did we get from there to a family court system that tries – however imperfectly – to put their welfare first? Kate is joined by **Lara Feigel**, author and professor at King's College London, to draw a comprehensive timeline of the family courts, from a time when children were seen as their father's property right through to today.  We talk about: - How the family court developed in England and Wales over the centuries – from a system that treated children as property to one that tries to hear their voice  - How that compares internationally – and why we so often followed rather than led - When the voice of the child started to matter, and how it's heard today - Why the family court should be the last reort for separating couples This episode is for anyone curious about how the family courts came to be, and why – where it's safe to – staying out of court is so often the kinder, calmer path. **A note on the word 'custody'** You'll hear the word 'custody' used throughout this episode – both in the historical context Lara explores and in the title of her book. It's also a term many people still use in everyday conversation when talking about their children after separation. But in England and Wales today, 'custody' isn't actually a legal term. It was replaced under the Children Act 1989, which shifted the focus away from one parent 'winning' and the other 'losing', and towards something more constructive: child arrangements. The language courts use now is 'lives with' and 'spends time with' – because the goal is for children to have meaningful, loving relationships with both parents wherever it's safe to do so. At amicable, we use 'child arrangements' rather than 'custody' for exactly this reason. The words we use shape how we think – and 'arrangements' puts children's needs at the centre, rather than parents' rights. **A note before you listen:** this episode touches on the death of a child and domestic abuse. Please take care while listening. If you need support, these organisations can help: - Women's Aid – [womensaid.org.uk](http://womensaid.org.uk) - Refuge – [refuge.org.uk](http://refuge.org.uk) - ManKind Initiative – [mankind.org.uk](http://mankind.org.uk) - Men's Advice Line – [mensadviceline.org.uk](http://mensadviceline.org.uk) - Mind – [mind.org.uk](http://mind.org.uk) - Samaritans – dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - If your life is in danger, dial 999 ## ## About Lara Feigel **Lara Feigel** is the author of _[Custody: The Secret History of Mothers](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Custody-History-Mothers-Lara-Feigel-ebook/dp/B0FD94WYB7) – _one of the Economist’s best books of 2026. This is_ _a history of child arrangements from 1800 told through the stories of several families. She is a professor at King’s College London and the author of five other books on cultural history and a novel.  You can find Lara’s book _[Custody: The Secret History of Mothers](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Custody-History-Mothers-Lara-Feigel-ebook/dp/B0FD94WYB7)_ on Amazon and you can read more of her writing on the [Right to Equality website](https://righttoequality.org/). ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep204_history_of_family_court&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ### Transcript Lara Feigel: 00:00 As the 19th century began, there were increasingly more people turning to the courts to arrange their intimate lives. I think society was becoming more legally orientated in general, so that problems in families became too complicated to be resolved by social norms or by community forums. And people turned to the courts to resolve their difficulties. But the courts then in turn, as things tend to do, became the problem. Kate Daly: 00:32 Welcome to the Divorce Podcast, where we explore relationships, divorce, separation, and parenting apart. This episode is part of our mini-series where we answer your questions, discuss current news and events, and share practical bite-sized tips. I'm your host, Kate Daly, a relationship counsellor, divorce specialist, and co-founder of Amicable, the online legal service for separating couples. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Lara Feigel, author and professor at King's College, for a whistletop history tour of family courts in England and Wales. Lara is the author of the new book Custody, The Secret History of Mothers, one of the Economists' best books of 2026. This is a history of child custody from 1800, told through the stories of several families. Book ends with a chapter on the courts in the present day. A quick heads up before we start. This episode touches on the death of a child, domestic abuse, and homophobia. So please take care while listening. Support organisations are linked in the show notes. Lara Feigel: 01:42 Welcome Lara. Hello, thank you for having me. It's great to be here. Kate Daly: 01:46 Well, it's lovely to see you. Thank you very much for joining us. This week's episode is all about the history of the family court in England and Wales. So, Lara, why don't you start by giving us a bit of a whistle stop tour of how the family court has developed and what some of the key changes that have happened are? Lara Feigel: 02:06 Yes, so custody cases in the 18th century were extremely rare. And then as the 19th century began, there were increasingly more people turning to the courts to arrange their intimate lives. I think society was becoming more legally orientated in general, so that problems in families became too complicated to be resolved by social norms or by community forums. And people turned to the courts to resolve their difficulties. But the courts then in turn, as things tend to do, became the problem. Law had to develop, and courts became complicated and developed their own biases and dynamics. So that's the kind of large history I'm tracing. And then the kind of really interesting changes happened in the early 19th century. At the beginning of the century, children were straightforwardly seen as the property of men. Men own their children in the same way that they owned any other possession from their houses. So you mean they were treated as chattels almost then? Yeah, absolutely. And that's partly just the legal system wasn't designed for anything more than that. The legal system was all about assigning property to one person or another. So children just had to sort of be part of that. And then there was a very gradual erosion of that principle. And my book is told through the history of six families, mainly six women who had sort of instrumental custody battles of one kind or another. And the first chapter is about a woman called Caroline Norton who discovered that her husband owned her children way too late in her marriage. She'd always been a very emancipated woman. She sort of assumed that because she was able to write books and take her earnings and host salons with the kind of great men of the day, that things had changed and that she was, in a way, the one in the marriage who was more powerful. She was the kind of confident of her prime minister. When her husband lost his job, it was she who arranged with the prime minister to get him a new one. And she was very much what we'd now call the primary carer with her children as well. She was the one, she breastfed them herself, although many sort of aristocratic 19th-century women didn't. She nursed them sort of diligently through every cold. In her letters, you get the kind of details that are so familiar to us now of sort of worrying about her sort of her son's lungs and trying to get him an extra soft scarf that he could look at wear to sleep. And then suddenly everything came crashing down around her when she had one too many arguments with her husband. He got fed up that she was in charge. He said, actually, kind of that's the end. I'm going to sue for adultery. I think you've been having an affair with the prime minister. And he so he did that. And when that failed, she was found to be innocent. He just said, Okay, right, I'm taking the children. And she hadn't known until then that he could do that. It was a kind of extraordinary thing that it was almost, it was like absolutely the norm for everyone, but also kind of oddly unknown thing because there were so few legal cases to test it, that these men owned their children. And she did everything she could. She got everyone sort of powerful to intervene, but there was nothing she could do. Her children were taken around the country. She, the husband wasn't even looking after them himself. They stayed with various relatives. She would sort of turn up and beg to see them and be turned away. And then in desperation, she realized that she couldn't fight for her individual children. She had to fight to change the law. And so she then turned to MP friends and very laboriously, very slowly, sort of aware that her children, every month without them, was a month that they would have changed, kind of beyond recognition. She brought about what would become the Custody of Infants Act in 1839. And that act was the first piece of feminist legislation we've ever had in England. And it also began the gradual change towards children having equal access to their parents. And it allowed for women to petition for access to their children under seven in the court of chancery. So a very sort of tiny first step, but nonetheless a really instrumental one because it kind of acknowledged as a legal principle the idea that children's welfare mattered and that children needed access to their mothers. Kate Daly: 06:19 Wow. I think it's just fascinating when you tell that story. What strikes me is how those human concerns and the human kind of element of that story just hasn't changed. All the things you're listing that she was concerned about are things that we're concerned about today, aren't they? But like you say, there was no recourse at that point. Absolutely for children to see both parents, that that kind of use of the children as a pawn in what was an adult argument, essentially. All of that feels very sadly familiar. Lara Feigel: 06:52 It does totally. And the sort of sense as well that people become that in a way, the one who's more powerful in the legal process becomes a worse version of themselves because they're empowered by that process. So I don't think when you first read about her husband, he doesn't seem like a sort of terrible person. But by the point at which he's hiding his children from her, it's like the whole process of custody has sort of turned him into that kind of gruesome monster. Kate Daly: 07:19 Exactly. This is what the legal system sucks out of people and does. It turns you into something that you are not. Lara Feigel: 07:33 Yeah. And very sadly, the story ends with a tragedy. She did manage to bring about this act, but it didn't have any immediate impact for her. And in the meantime, the children were continued to be passed around between relatives. And at one point they were left totally unsupervised horse riding in a sort of the massive grounds of someone's estate. And her youngest son, age seven, went out and got fell off his horse and ended up dying as a result of injuries that weren't tended to. Yeah. What a tragic story. I know, I know. And I research in custody over these hundreds of years, I do find way too many children dying as a result precisely of that sort of process you're describing, where some parents are so obsessed with the kind of fight between them that the children get completely forgotten about. And she's she said after after her boy's death, she said, if only some of that money that was spent on sort of fighting me could have been spent on just hiring a servant to look after him when he was left unattended. It was a sort of awfulness of that tiny amount of money not being spent. Kate Daly: 08:35 Gosh. And so where do we go from Caroline's story then? What's the next big change? Lara Feigel: 08:41 Well, I think at this point in a way, it's helpful to look around at what other countries were doing because the kind of changes that followed in England were really led by changes that happened first, in particular in France and in America. Kate Daly: 08:57 Well, that's interesting in itself, isn't it? Because we always say we have a world-leading legal system in this country. But when you look at family law, we are forever following whether that's in divorce law and only just kind of a couple of years ago getting no fault divorce and everything, because that had been, you know, part of the Australian legal system, for example, since the early 70s. So I find it really fascinating that whilst we hold ourselves out as this great legal sort of presence, we're often following. So yeah, so what was happening in France? Lara Feigel: 09:25 Yeah, I mean, I think that's really interesting what you say. And it's partly because we're our common law tradition, which is a sort of brilliantly dexterous element of our legal system that allows it to kind of adapt quickly, also in some ways holds it back because people can't just come in and sort of impose codes of the kind that change things. It's much harder to get that legislative change. So I think what was happening in both France and America was that they'd had revolutions and that these had brought in an idea of rights. And so that those kind of ideas of rights immediately undercut this sense of ownership. People are no longer possessions. Children come with rights of their own. And so in France, in both revolutionary law and Napoleonic law, there's a kind of massive code book that from right at the start of the 19th century, from sort of 1804, it's it's kind of written in there that in the case of a legal separation, so from right at the start of the 19th century, although men do basically own their children within a marriage, as soon as it comes to a legal separation, custody arrangements are to be made based on, for and this is the phrase used, the interest of the child. Kate Daly: 10:34 So that's incredibly the first time when we've got the interest of the child coming in, then, yeah. Lara Feigel: 10:38 Exactly. Yeah. Really sort of way ahead of when you might think it. Like this was totally unheard of in Britain. The idea that you would have a legal statute imposing the interest of the child right at the turn of the 19th century. And my sort of big case study for France is a woman called Georges Sand, a sort of massively successful 19th century novelist, who interestingly had a custody case the very same year as Caroline Norton's in 1836. And where Caroline Norton lost, despite being, in many ways, a very exemplary figure who was found not to have committed adultery, George Sant, who was known to have committed adultery and who had indeed written a series of extremely popular novels about adultery, managed to win her custody case because of this difference in the world. Her very French. Yeah. Yeah. And indeed, the sort of brilliant bit of her court process was when her husband produced a sort of letter in which she was admitting to adultery. And rather than kind of hiding it, her lawyer read the entire letter out to the courtroom because he thought her brilliance as a writer would sort of convince the jury of her sort of sensitivity as a mother, which it did. So you get that happening in France. And then America, in a way, is even more surprising because America was meant to have common law. It was meant to sort of follow English common law. But what was happening was that increasingly American judges were just discarding common law, saying, well, actually, we are no longer bound to England. We are going to form our own legal traditions. And again, what came in there was a sense of the children's interests. And so in America, it's done not through statute but through case law. And so in 1843, you get a judge in Tennessee who discards common law with what he calls its stern and ironbound principles and insists that men and women were created by the same God and therefore have equal rights. And he gives a mother custody of two young children on the grounds that in all cases, the interest and welfare of the child is the great leading object to be attained. And that was a judgment that then would be quoted over and over again, that really kind of allowed judges for the rest of the 19th century to give custody of children to mothers where they felt that the mothers had been the main carriers of these children's lives. Kate Daly: 12:51 It was so interesting, isn't it? So that kind of moves it on a little bit. And then fast forward, then what's the next big step? Lara Feigel: 12:59 So what then happens is that eventually England catches up and it takes till 1886 when the Guardianship of Infants Act is brought in. And this is very much legislation that kind of every sort of 20 years or so there's been a law that has extended Caroline Norton's Act, extends 7 to 16, extends access to custody. And now by 1886, it is kind of nominally an Equal Rights Act that gives courts the power to give mothers custody of children right up until 16. And the kind of principle of welfare is written in for the first time in English law. It says having regard to the welfare of the infant and to the conduct of the parents and to the wishes as well of the mother as of the father. So that's sort of huge progress. But in actuality, when I sort of looked through, I read a thousand divorce files from 1914. I found that it wasn't as progressive as we might hope. Kate Daly: 14:00 Yeah, no, it sounds very progressive on paper, but everything you read and see, like there are films about this, aren't there? And all sorts of different media talk about this. It always feels like up until probably the 60s or 70s, it was very much the children went with the effectively the richer person. Husbands often made a case that they could present better prepare and have better lives for the children, and therefore the children went that way, didn't they? Lara Feigel: 14:28 That absolutely, yeah. How much you spent on legal costs as today sort of made a big difference. And also, I think that sort of middle clause, the conduct of the parents was crucial because the male conduct and the female conduct were judged according to totally different standards. So an adulterous father could absolutely get custody. It was seen as a sort of normal part of the male character. But an adulterous mother, even if she was only adulteress because she'd been abandoned and had to find a man to support her, would lose custody if it was if it was tried in court. Kate Daly: 15:03 And also, adultery wasn't a ground on which a woman could divorce a man for most of the 19th century and earlier 20th century. When did that law change as well? So we've got a lot of different laws going on, haven't we, that absolutely put women at a huge disadvantage when it comes to being able to argue a custody case. So bring us up to date then. What happened in the latter part of the 20th century? Lara Feigel: 15:26 So the kind of next big change is that in 1925, men and women were given equal guardianship of their children. And so that then in theory meant that they had a sort of level field on which to fight for custody. And it's still a problem that the kind of landmark judgments judge women more harshly than men. And this is still this, I think, the really pernicious ideal of kind of what a good mother is. So there's a kind of classic judgment in 1962 by Lord Denning, the Chancellor at the time, that says that even though this woman was a good mother, she can't have custody of her children because to be a good mother is also to be a good wife. And I feel like that sort of doesn't apply in the opposite direction, exactly. Yeah. So I think what then has to change, sort of decade after decade, laboriously with often through case law, is to kind of challenge this idea of what a good mother is and to say that a woman can fall out of love with her husband without it, meaning that she doesn't have the ability to. Kate Daly: 16:27 Yeah, and it's completely incapable of looking after her children, shocked. Exactly. Yes. Lara Feigel: 16:32 And so then, and it's kind of as in each era, it's the kind of social norms that need to change. So eventually adulterous mothers do get custody. But then what happens next is that lesbian mothers lose custody in the 70s and 80s, and even up into the 90s, there are mothers who've left a heterosexual marriage who have then become involved in a lesbian relationship and where they lose custody because and often these judges are saying it's not that she's not a good mother to her child, but it's that the welfare of the child, and the the welfare of the child can be a very slippery principle. But for the welfare of this child, we don't want them to be stigmatized at school. We don't want them to be teased because they've got a lesbian mother, and that it's much until society catches up, we better just put them with our father where they can have a normal life. Quite normal, yeah. Kate Daly: 17:19 Oh my goodness, it's it's amazing, isn't it? Lara Feigel: 17:22 Yeah. And I think the question is really interesting of like, should the law lead society or should it respond to it? Because basically these judges are saying, I'm not myself homophobic. It's just like my hands are tied because society is behind my own views. So should the judges be saying, no, my role is to tell society that this is fine or not? And I think it's not a straightforward question in a way, because English law just isn't based on an idea that judges are social pioneers. Kate Daly: 17:48 Yeah, I know. I know I shouldn't laugh like that, should I? But yeah, you're right. And it's so interesting because I was just reading something on LinkedIn just before we came on as well. And that was saying that they'd done a study and looked at um how women versus men were judged in family cases, and they'd looked at over 2,000 transcripts, and women are still being judged very harshly as mothers, much more harshly than men are in custody cases. Uh, so it's just, it's just I mean, we should bring it properly up to we don't have custody under the law in England and Wales anymore. We have parental rights and responsibilities, so there isn't such a thing as custody. But that's just it's it's such an interesting question. You're right. Should the law be leading social policy, or is there a point to that, which is that that stigma will impact on a child's life? Lara Feigel: 18:34 It's just yeah, it's a thorny one. And what I And I think what it what it reveals in part is just that judges aren't necessarily the right people now that we're we sort of ended up as as in a way we were always going to, in a situation where it's not primarily a legal question, it's really about the sort of intricacy of children's lives and and their sort of day-to-day, what it's like to wake up as this child in that house with in the care of these two people. Like, why do we expect judges to know the best solution? It's kind of that they're trained in a totally different field and suddenly they have to become sort of social workers. Kate Daly: 19:07 But also, I don't I don't think they can because where do you where does that end? Okay, so that's a point on sexual orientation, but why not political views? What if you've got really fringe political views and they're known? Or what about famous people and everyone knows what your mum and dad does? And if your mum and dad have views that they make public on social media, that could make you a target of bullying just as the same. So I just I don't I I can't see how we can say a judge can make that decision about what's in the best interest of a child based on those sorts of characteristics, some are protected characteristics as well. So, how does that not fall foul of equality legislation? I think it's we go down a really rocky road, I think, if we go down that angle. I think that judges should be above that and should lead a moral conversation because that's part of being a society is having a legal system that's fit for purpose. I think it's weak to stand behind it personally. Lara Feigel: 20:08 I think it's also the kind of need for judges to have a sort of holistic sense of the family. And I think one of the problems with the legal cases I've seen now is that there's there's a sense that the welfare of the child is sort of so important that it doesn't matter if the parents fall apart, and that often indeed these legal cases can feel driven to sort of make the parents fall apart. And somehow that there's kind of the the sort of requirements of the judge are both too much and too little in that respect, but they're sort of expected to arbitrate on the whole of the sort of morality of the social world, but they're also not expected to look at all the people involved and try and to come up with a holistic solution. Kate Daly: 20:43 Yeah. Lara Feigel: 20:44 When did the voice of the child come into all of this then, Lara? So I think gradually, I mean, by by the time that 1925 act, there was a sense that children's welfare was instrumental to this process. By the 1960s, some people called welfare officers, who were the kind of forerunners of CAFCAS officers, were often interviewing children in complicated custody cases. And so then it sort of gradually got to the point we're at today where children in about 50% of cases are interviewed at some stage in the process. Either they're made sort of actual kind of awards of court through being appointed a guardian, or they're, or they're just interviewed uh as part of a sort of section seven report by a Kafkas officer. Or in the new Pathfinder courts, children are interviewed by social workers before they even come into court. And I think broadly we're all agreed that it's great that children's voices are heard. I think there's a real danger that it can be even worse for children when they're interviewed again and again and even given their own legal representation, and still they don't get what they're asking for, particularly when they're teenagers. So I think we need to be really careful in a way in sort of what we promise children when we do hear from them and in sort of assessing what it means to hear from children and how much weight we're we're giving their views and how trustworthy we see their wishes and feelings as. Kate Daly: 22:09 Yeah, no, it's it's really interesting and really fascinating. If you were wanted people to know one thing about the family court, Lara, what would it be? Lara Feigel: 22:18 That it's very adversarial, that it can seem designed to be adversarial, and that it involves a ratcheting up of disputes. It's really like, can we look beyond this adversarial process? And certainly the new Pathfinder courts are very much trying to. So I think we have to hope that as they're rolled out more widely, the kind of principle is adopted that there is nothing to be gained from pitting these parents against each other as enemies. Yeah. Kate Daly: 22:44 Yeah. Well, I think the message from my perspective is very much that that once you start this kind of process, I think people go into it, think that the court is going to be some great arbitrator of fairness and truth, and that they will inevitably come out better than their other parent because that's they're going into it thinking that. And it doesn't do that. There is no great arbiter of truth. Everyone has their own truth, it's very murky. I hope that this episode serves as a reminder to people that the court's not the answer. If there is any safe way of staying out of court, and I say that carefully because for some people, the court is the only safe way to progress with this. But if there is any safe way of staying out of court, it's like playing Russian roulette. Don't go there. It's not what you think it's going to be. It isn't going to serve you justice in the way you think it's going to. And trying to maintain some form of relationship with your other parent is super important ultimately. So yeah. Well, I hope that I hope that's what people take from this. Lara, it's been fascinating hearing about you and the work that you do. Where can people find out more? Lara Feigel: 23:51 Well, I'd love people to read my my book, Custody, The Secret History of Mothers, which is widely available. And I'd also love to mention that I write regular blog posts for the Right to Equality website if you'd like to read some reporting on the courts in the present. Brilliant. Kate Daly: 24:05 Well, we'll put those links in the show notes as well. Don't forget you can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn, and you can hear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visiting thedivorsepodcast.com. Or of course, you can find us on your favourite listening platform. We'd love to know how we can help further. So please share any questions on divorce, separation, or co-parenting with us at hello at amicable.co.uk. You can join our subscription platform to Amical Space, where you can find our community forum, a safe place to ask anything as you go through separation or co-parenting. Members also get free access to our monthly QA webinars and Amicals Divorce Specialists. The link to sign up is on the episode description. Thank you so much for joining me today, Laura. It's been absolutely brilliant talking to you. And thank you, everybody, for listening. --- ## Episode 203 — Widowed and divorced AF: Rosie Moss on finding love after loss Published: 2026-07-15 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/widowed-and-divorced-af > What happens when you find love again after losing your partner - and that second love story ends too? What happens when you find love again after losing your partner - and that second love story ends too?  Bereavement and divorce are widely cited as the two most stressful life events a person can go through – and [Rosie Moss](https://widowedaf.com/) has lived both. Widowed suddenly in her thirties with three young children, Rosie found love again – and then walked through the breakdown of that second marriage. She joins Kate not to talk about how hard it's been, but about what's grown out of it. Rosie is host of the [award-winning podcast _Widowed AF_](https://widowedaf.com/podcast/) and author of the [bestselling book _Widowed As F\*\*k_](https://widowedaf.com/the-book/). Together, Kate and Rosie explore love, loss, dating again and learning to like yourself through it all. We talk about: - Meeting someone through shared grief - and what happens when a relationship is fast-tracked by loss - Helping children make sense of a step-parent leaving their lives  - Dating again as both a widow and a divorcee - Protecting your peace and discovering the strength you didn't know you had  This episode is for anyone navigating loss and separation, dating again after divorce or bereavement, or simply trying to make sense of what comes next when life takes a turn you didn't plan for.  **Trigger warning:** This episode discusses bereavement, mental health and alcohol use. If you're affected by anything discussed, you can call Samaritans free on 116 123, or text SHOUT to 85258. ## Meet Rosie Moss [Rosie Moss](https://widowedaf.com/) is the host of the [award-winning podcast _Widowed AF_](https://widowedaf.com/podcast/) and author of the [bestselling book _Widowed As F\*\*k_](https://widowedaf.com/the-book/). Widowed suddenly in her thirties with three young children, she found love again - and now speaks openly about what happens when that second relationship doesn't work out, and how hard it is to protect children while everything is shifting around them. Her work focuses on the overlap between grief, separation and long-term stress, and how these experiences shape decision-making, resilience and recovery - particularly for women balancing it all. Through her podcast and writing, Rosie has built a global community by challenging the clichés around grief and divorce, and focusing on what life actually looks like when you're in the middle of it. [Follow Rosie on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/widowed_af/) to learn more about her journey.  ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep203_widowed_af&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep203_widowed_af&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep203_widowed_af&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep203_widowed_af&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 202 — In brief: Family court – what to expect and how to prepare with AdviceNow Published: 2026-07-08 · Duration: 24 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-family-court-what-to-expect-and-how-to-prepare-with-advicenow > Family court is the part of divorce most people hope to avoid – and for good reason. But if it becomes part of your journey, knowing what to expect can change everything. Family court is the part of divorce most people hope to avoid – and for good reason. But if it becomes part of your journey, knowing what to expect can change everything. Kate is joined by **Beth Kirkland **from [AdviceNow](https://www.advicenow.org.uk/) to talk about what happens when court becomes unavoidable, what it actually feels like to walk into one and how to give yourself the best chance if you're representing yourself. We talk about: - How [AdviceNow](https://www.advicenow.org.uk/) can help if you're going through a divorce or separation - The reasons couples end up in family court – and why it should be a last resort - What court actually feels like and what the common myths and misconceptions are - Beth's practical advice to anyone facing court without legal representation This episode is for anyone navigating divorce or separation in England and Wales who wants to understand the family court process – whether court feels close, or you simply want to know your options before things escalate. **A note before you listen:** this episode includes references to domestic abuse and coercive control. If you're affected by anything we discuss, you'll find support organisations listed at the bottom of this description. **Support organisations:** - Women's Aid – [womensaid.org.uk](http://womensaid.org.uk) - Refuge – [refuge.org.uk](http://refuge.org.uk) - ManKind Initiative – [mankind.org.uk](http://mankind.org.uk) - Men's Advice Line – [mensadviceline.org.uk](http://mensadviceline.org.uk) - Mind – [mind.org.uk](http://mind.org.uk) - Samaritans – dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - If your life is in danger, dial 999 The statistic Beth references comes from the Everyday Business report, published by the Domestic Abuse Commissioner in October 2025, which found evidence of domestic abuse in 73% of observed family court cases and 87% of case files involving children. [Read the full report here](https://www.domesticabusecommissioner.uk/reports/).  ## About AdviceNow [AdviceNow](https://www.advicenow.org.uk/) is a UK-based not-for-profit organisation and charity that increases access to justice by helping people to deal with life's legal problems. They provide legal support, including information, legal self-help tools, and training to help people use the law. You can access free resources for divorce and separation that Beth mentions in the episode on [AdviceNow website](https://www.advicenow.org.uk/get-help/family-and-children/divorce-and-separation), and you can watch a video about the experience of family court with some helpful tips [here](https://www.advicenow.org.uk/get-help/family-and-children/family-court/representing-yourself-family-court).  ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to understand your options?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep202_advicenow&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep202_advicenow&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on the legal side of divorce and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep202_advicenow&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep202_advicenow&utm_content=episode_description) includes a clear breakdown of the different ways to separate, from solicitor-led routes to mediation to cooperative services like amicable, so you can choose what fits your situation. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). #Legal --- ## Episode 201 — You’re doing better than you think: helping children thrive through divorce Published: 2026-07-01 · Duration: 45 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/helping-children-thrive-through-divorce > Supporting your children through separation goes so much further than one difficult conversation - but knowing how to keep showing up for them is something many parents struggle with. Supporting your children through separation goes so much further than one difficult conversation - but knowing how to keep showing up for them is something many parents struggle with. Kate is joined by Hannah Strong, therapist, separated mum and founder of My Thriving Child, to explore what children really need from their parents during and after a separation. Drawing on science, psychology and her own lived experience, Hannah shares her framework for helping children not just cope - but thrive. They explore: - Why it's not about getting it perfect – and the reassuring research behind that - What's really going on in your child's brain when family life changes - How to spot the signs your child might be struggling, even when they seem fine - Why the first conversation about your separation is just the beginning - The small everyday actions that help your children build security and thrive This episode is for any parent going through separation who wants to do right by their children - whether they're at the very start of the process or years down the line. ## Meet Hannah Strong [Hannah Strong](https://www.mythrivingchild.co/) is a therapist, coach and separated mum who specialises in helping parents to support their children in the best way possible through divorce - so their children do not just survive, but genuinely thrive.  You can learn more about how Hannah can help your family on the [My Thriving Child](https://www.mythrivingchild.co/) website and you can [follow her on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/hannah_strong_therapist/) for more helpful tips.  ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep201_my_thriving_child&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). ## Sources referenced in this episode - Tronick, E. Z., & Gianino, A. F. (1986). The Transmission of Maternal Disturbance to the Infant. In E. Z. Tronick & T. Field (Eds.), Maternal Depression and Infant Disturbance (New Directions for Child Development, No. 34, pp. 5-11). Jossey-Bass. - Amato, P. R., Loomis, L. S., & Booth, A. (1995). Parental Divorce, Marital Conflict, and Offspring Well-Being During Early Adulthood. Social Forces, 73(3), 895-915. - Kelly, J. B., & Emery, R. E. (2003). Children's Adjustment Following Divorce: Risk and Resilience Perspectives. Family Relations, 52(4), 352-362. - Masten, A. S. (2001). Ordinary Magic: Resilience Processes in Development. American Psychologist, 56(3), 227–238. - Luthar, S. S., Cicchetti, D., & Becker, B. (2000). The Construct of Resilience: A Critical Evaluation and Guidelines for Future Work. Child Development, 71(3), 543–562. - Rutter, M. (2012). Resilience as a Dynamic Concept. Development and Psychopathology, 24(2), 335–344. - Masten, A. S., & Reed, M.-G. J. (2002). Resilience in Development. In C. R. Snyder & S. J. Lopez (Eds.), Handbook of Positive Psychology (pp. 74–88). Oxford University Press. - Werner, E. E., & Smith, R. S. (1992). Overcoming the Odds: High Risk Children from Birth to Adulthood. Cornell University Press. - Bowlby, J. (1969/1982). Attachment and Loss. Vol. 1: Attachment. - Ainsworth, M. D. S., Blehar, M. C., Waters, E., & Wall, S. (1978). Patterns of Attachment. - Sroufe, L. A., Egeland, B., Carlson, E., & Collins, W. A. (2005). The Development of the Person: The Minnesota Study of Risk and Adaptation from Birth to Adulthood. - van IJzendoorn, M. H., & Sagi-Schwartz, A. (2008). Cross-Cultural Patterns of Attachment: Universal and Contextual Dimensions. In Handbook of Attachment (2nd ed.). --- ## Episode 200 — Best of: 200 episodes of The Divorce Podcast Published: 2026-06-24 · Duration: 20 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/200th-episode-divorce-podcast-best-bits > 200 episodes of honest, hopeful conversations about divorce – here are the moments that stayed with us. 200 episodes of honest, hopeful conversations about divorce – here are the moments that stayed with us. To mark our 200th episode, we're looking back at some of the conversations that have meant the most – to us and to you. From day one, The Divorce Podcast has been part of amicable's mission to change the way people separate, making divorce kinder, fairer and a little less lonely. This special episode brings together the honest, funny and moving moments that capture exactly why we do it. In this episode, you'll hear from: - **Ella Kenion** – on co-parenting, and why the thought of an ex meeting someone new can still sting - **Emma Campbell** – on the emotional weight of single parenting - **Emma Reed Turrell** – on the difference between kindness and people pleasing - **Hal Cruttenden** – on how hard many men find it to open up - **Jonathan Fitter-Harding** – on the day-to-day reality of 'nesting' and co-parenting with kindness - **Ebele Okobi** – on grief, growth and an unexpected reconciliation This episode is for anyone navigating separation who could use a reminder that they're not alone – and a lovely place to start if you're new to the podcast. So many of you have told us how much the podcast has helped over the years, and that means everything. If someone you know might need it too, please share this episode with them. **Trigger warning:** This episode touches on themes that some people might find distressing, including serious illness, bereavement and times of low mood. _If you're affected by anything discussed, you can call Samaritans free on 116 123, or text SHOUT to 85258._ ## Meet our guests [Ella Kenion](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0447785/) is an actress with a long and varied career across stage and screen, with highlights including 'The Outlaws', 'The Detectorists' and 'Midsomer Murders'.  [Emma Campbell](https://limitlessem.com/) is an author, speaker and podcast host, known to her Instagram followers as [Limitless Em](https://www.instagram.com/limitless_em).  [Emma Reed Turrell](https://emmareedturrell.com/) is a psychotherapist, clinical supervisor, podcaster and author of _[Please Yourself: How to Stop People-Pleasing and Transform the Way You Live](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Please-Yourself-Stop-People-Pleasing-Transform/dp/0008409374/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=)_ and _[What Am I Missing? Discover the Four Blind Spots That are Holding You Back and How to Overcome Them](https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/454959/what-am-i-missing-by-turrell-emma-reed/9780241624982)_. [Hal Cruttenden](https://www.instagram.com/hcruttenden/) is a stand-up comedian, actor and podcaster. In his latest show, [Hal Cruttenden: Can Dish It Out But Can't Take It](https://halcruttenden.com/), he discussed the devastation of his divorce - after 20 years of marriage his wife left him. **Jonathan Fitter-Harding** is a proud dad of two, a creative entrepreneur and one of the key people behind Pride Canterbury - the main LGBTQ+ event in the South East. [Ebele Okobi](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebeleokobi/) is the principal of Revolutionary Projects, an advisor, board member and maker of good trouble with 25 years of experience leading global teams across tech, consumer brands and arts institutions. ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep200_compilation&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep200_compilation&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep200_compilation&utm_content=episode_description). We're giving away a copy of Kate’s book_ amicable divorce_. To enter, just email us at hello@amicable.co.uk with the subject 'The Divorce Podcast' by the 30th of June, and we'll pick a winner at random.  ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 199 — Divorcing dads: why separation hits men hard - and how to help Published: 2026-06-17 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/divorcing-dads-mental-health-separation > Divorce can hit men hard – and many dads withdraw just when they need people most. For divorcing dads, that isolation isn't only painful – it can be dangerous. Divorce can hit men hard – and many dads withdraw just when they need people most. For divorcing dads, that isolation isn't only painful – it can be dangerous. Kate is joined by psychologist **Dr Eran Magen**, founder of [Divorcing Dads](https://www.divorcingdads.org/), to explore why men are so much more at risk during separation – and the simple things that help them through it. We talk about: - Why divorced dads face a much higher suicide risk - The particular challenges separated dads face, and the part society still plays in making them harder - How a strong support network protects men's mental health - A simple way to tell friends and family what's going on - and ask for what you need This episode is for any dad going through separation – and for anyone who wants to better support the men they care about. **Trigger warning:** this episode talks about poor mental health and suicide. If you're affected by anything discussed, you can call Samaritans free on 116 123, or text SHOUT to 85258. ## Meet Eran Magen **Dr. Eran Magen** earned his M.A. in education and Ph.D. in psychology from Stanford University and completed post-doctoral training in child psychology and population health. He is currently an assistant clinical professor at the Yale School of Medicine Department of Psychiatry. Eran is the founder of [Divorcing Dads](http://divorcingdads.org) and [Parenting For Humans](http://parentingforhumans.com), both of which support parents in building strong, collaborative and joyful relationships with their children. He is also the founder of [EarlyAlert](https://www.earlyalert.me/), which provides early suicide prevention support for students and veterans. You can [listen to Eran on the Divorcing Dads podcast](https://divorcingdads.buzzsprout.com/2372419/follow) and [get in touch with him on LinkedIn.](https://www.linkedin.com/in/eranmagen/) ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep199_eran_magen&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep199_eran_magen&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep199_eran_magen&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on navigating separation with kindness and rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 198 — In brief: What to read with your child when your family changes Published: 2026-06-10 · Duration: 25 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-what-to-read-with-your-child-when-your-family-changes > Think of every picture book your child has ever loved. How many show a family going through separation? Almost none - so what does that silence tell a child whose reality looks very different? Think of every picture book your child has ever loved. How many show a family going through separation? Almost none - so what does that silence tell a child whose reality looks very different?  Kate is joined by [Elizabeth Rudnick](http://elizabethrudnick.com), whose picture book _[First Night at Dad's](https://www.amazon.com/First-Night-Dads-Reassuring-Separation/dp/1523529202)_ was born from her own experience of separation. Together they explore the gap in children's literature around divorce, why the right story can make a real difference - and how to start the conversations that matter most. We talk about: - Elizabeth's personal story of separation and what it taught her about how children process change  - Why so few children's books reflect the reality of separated families  - The milestones we forget to mark - why a child's first night at dad's deserves the same acknowledgement as their first steps  - Why the right book helps both child and parent through a tricky moment together  - Practical tips for talking to your children about separation in an age-appropriate way This episode is for any parent who wants to support their child through separation but isn't sure where to start - and for anyone who works with or cares for children going through family change.  ## Meet Elizabeth Rudnick [Elizabeth Rudnick](http://elizabethrudnick.com) has worked in publishing for over two decades as a writer, editor, and agent. She has written more than thirty books including the Young Adult novel _Tweet Heart,_ as well as numerous bestselling Disney novelisations such as _Cinderella, Frozen, Moana, _and _Beauty and the Beast_. _First Night at Dad's _is her first original picture-book. Elizabeth lives in North Carolina, with her son and their dog. You can [find _First Night at Dad's_ on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/First-Night-Dads-Reassuring-Separation/dp/1523529202), and you can get in touch with Elizabeth on [her website](https://elizabethrudnick.com/) or [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/elizabethrudnickwrites). ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** [Book a free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) - a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) free for 3 months to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep198_picture_books&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 197 — What stepfamilies really need to thrive, with Stepmum Space Published: 2026-06-03 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/what-stepfamilies-need-to-thrive > Becoming a step-mum comes with almost none of the roadmaps, support or community that biological mums get. If you're finding it harder than you expected, this episode will help you understand why - and what you can actually do about it. Becoming a step-mum comes with almost none of the roadmaps, support or community that biological mums get. If you're finding it harder than you expected, this episode will help you understand why - and what you can actually do about it.  Kate is joined by **Katie South**, transformational coach and founder of [Stepmum Space](https://www.stepmumspace.com/), to explore why stepfamilies struggle - and what it really takes to make them stronger.  We talk about: - Why advice like ‘love them as your own’ sets step-mums up to fail - Why step-parents often feel powerless - and what to do about it'  - How to have the important conversations early, before you're already deep in it - The practical building blocks for creating stability and emotional safety at home This episode is for anyone who is repartnering or has repartnered after separation, especially those navigating life as a step-parent or supporting a partner through it.  ## Meet Katie South [Katie South](https://www.stepmumspace.com/) is a UK-based transformational coach specialising in stepfamily dynamics and the relationship challenges that come after divorce. She is the founder of Stepmum Space, where she works with stepmums, divorced dads and step-couples navigating co-parenting conflict, boundary breakdown and emotional overload.  Through her coaching and podcast, [Stepmum Space](https://www.stepmumspace.com/stepmum-podcast), she helps couples move from blame and battle toward long-term stability. You can [get in touch with Katie on her website](https://www.stepmumspace.com/).  ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to take a practical next step?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description). Kate's book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. [Try the amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep197_stepmum_space&utm_content=episode_description) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter **PODCAST** and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 196 — Values in divorce: a coach's guide to staying true to yourself Published: 2026-05-27 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/values-in-divorce > Your values shape every relationship you have - so what happens to them during a separation? Your values shape every relationship you have - so what happens to them during a separation? Kate is joined by [Katie Lancaster](https://www.katielancastercoaching.com/), an executive and leadership coach, to explore why holding onto your values during divorce can change everything about how you come out the other side. If you're trying to get through a divorce or separation in a kinder, calmer way, this conversation is full of practical tips to help you stay grounded. We talk about: - How to stay true to yourself in tough divorce negotiations - even when emotions are running high  - The ABC technique (awareness, breathe, choose) for moving from reaction to response  - Why self-compassion is a non-negotiable, not a nice-to-have  - Why your divorce might not feel over even when the paperwork says it is This episode is for anyone going through separation or divorce who wants to come through it feeling stronger, kinder and more like themselves. ## Meet Katie Lancaster [Katie Lancaster](https://www.katielancastercoaching.com/) is an ICF and CTI certified executive and leadership coach who helps senior leaders and teams perform better and find more meaning in their work. After starting her career at Boston Consulting Group in Munich and completing an MBA at IESE Barcelona, she held board-level roles at global communications agencies in London. She has also built her own consultancy, advises start-ups and is a member of the Harvard Business Review Advisory Council.  You can learn more about Katie on [her website](https://www.katielancastercoaching.com/) and you can [get in touch with her on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-lancaster/). ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep196_values_in_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep196_values_in_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep196_values_in_divorce&utm_content=episode_description). Kate's book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep196_values_in_divorce&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness, rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 195 — Supporting men's mental health at work during divorce, with Halfords Published: 2026-05-20 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/mens-mental-health-at-work-divorce-halfords > Mental health at work is hard to talk about - and for men, it can feel even harder, especially when divorce or separation is part of the picture. Mental health at work is hard to talk about - and for men, it can feel even harder, especially when divorce or separation is part of the picture. In this episode, Kate is joined by **Mel Sterling**, Senior People Leader at [Halfords](https://www.halfords.com/), to talk about men's mental health at work - what to look for, what to say and why divorce is the missing piece in most workplace wellbeing strategies. We talk about: - How men's mental health often shows up differently at work - and what to look out for - Why divorce and separation are still missing from most workplace wellbeing strategies - The simple ‘ask twice’ technique that can change a conversation - Who to talk to at work when you're going through separation - and what to ask for - How employers can build a culture where people feel safe to speak up This episode is for anyone navigating divorce or separation alongside work - and for the employers, HR teams and colleagues who want to better support the men around them. Research referenced in this episode is from [Priory Group's research](https://www.priorygroup.com/blog/40-of-men-wont-talk-to-anyone-about-their-mental-health) on men and mental health. ## Meet Mel Sterling **Mel Sterling** is a Senior People Leader at [Halfords](https://www.halfords.com/), with a career spent shaping how some of the UK's biggest organisations look after their people. Across roles at Halfords, Holland & Barrett and Sainsbury's, she's led work on colleague wellbeing, inclusion and culture - partnering with executive teams to build environments where people feel supported, represented and able to bring their whole selves to work. She has a track record of making wellbeing and inclusion genuinely work in practice - not just on paper. You can get in touch with Mel and read more about her work [on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissa-sterling-8ba026135/). ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to take a practical next step?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description). Kate's book [amicable divorce](https://amicable.io/amicable-divorce-book?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description) includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness and timing, navigating separation with kindness, rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Are you an employer looking to better support employees through relationship change?** To find out how amicable partners with organisations to provide expert support, [book a discovery call](https://meetings-eu1.hubspot.com/valentin-crisan?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=podcast_ep195_mens_mental_health_at_work&utm_content=episode_description). ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 194 — Single parenting after divorce: support, boundaries and self-care Published: 2026-05-13 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/single-parenting-after-divorce > Single parenting after separation is a lot – and so much of it goes unspoken. Single parenting after separation is a lot – and so much of it goes unspoken. Kate is joined by [Orla Donoghue](https://www.solascoaching.com/), coach and single mum, for an honest conversation about the realities of single parenting after divorce and things that help make it simpler.  We talk about: - How to get through the first year of being a single parent - How to communicate with your co-parent and set boundaries  - Why asking for help as a single parent is a sign of strength  - Small, affordable ways to carve out time for yourself – without guilt  This episode is for anyone navigating single parenting after divorce or separation – especially those who feel like they're carrying it all on their own.  ## Meet Orla Donoghue [Orla Donoghue](https://www.solascoaching.com/) is a speaker, writer and coach, specialising in the realities of modern parenthood and life transitions. Drawing on her own lived experience as a single parent, she combines personal insight with practical strategies to help people navigate the emotional, social and logistical challenges of parenting alone. Orla’s work focuses on creating honest conversations, building support systems, and developing practical approaches that make both work and home life feel more sustainable. You can get in touch with Orla through [Solas Coaching website](https://www.solascoaching.com/podcast) and you can [listen to her podcast Single Parent Reset](https://open.spotify.com/show/3r5m8i0oCV9FsoKMVnRCdQ) for more helpful advice ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to talk through your co-parenting approach?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Looking for guidance on managing child-related costs?** Kate's book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes a dedicated chapter on managing the day-to-day costs of raising children across two homes, from child maintenance to school trips, with frameworks for reaching fair agreements that prevent ongoing conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Want ongoing support after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla) for exclusive webinars and articles on co-parenting and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=orla). ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 193 — Glass half-full: Libby Brodie on how divorce made her a better person Published: 2026-05-06 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/libby-brodie-how-divorce-made-her-a-better-person > Separation and a complete career change at the same time – sound overwhelming? For Libby Brodie, it was the start of something unexpected. Separation and a complete career change at the same time – sound overwhelming? For Libby Brodie, it was the start of something unexpected. Kate is joined by **Libby Brodie**, celebrated columnist and founder of [Bacchus and Brodie](https://www.bacchusandbrodie.com/) wine consultancy, to hear her story of navigating a marriage breakdown during lockdown – while simultaneously rebuilding her career from the ground up. We talk about: - How Libby navigated separation and job loss at the same time  - The stories we tell ourselves – and why letting go of them can help you grow - How two happy homes can be the best thing for your children - Libby's tips for the trickiest parts of divorce - finances, co-parenting and communication  This episode is for anyone going through a difficult chapter who needs a reminder that it's possible to come out the other side – not just okay, but genuinely thriving. ## **Meet Libby Brodie** **Libby Brodie** is an industry-renowned wine expert, celebrated columnist and founder of [Bacchus & Brodie](https://www.bacchusandbrodie.com/) wine consultancy. As City AM's dedicated wine columnist, she's built a reputation as one of the UK's brightest female wine talents – contributing to Condé Nast Traveller, The Independent, Cosmopolitan and more. Before wine, Libby was an award-winning theatre and film producer. When the pandemic closed every show overnight, she pivoted into the wine world – passing her Wine and Spirits Education Trust qualification with Distinction in just six months. You can [get in touch with Libby on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/libbybrodie) and you can learn more about her work on [Bacchus & Brodie](https://www.bacchusandbrodie.com/) website. You can also hear Libby talk about all things wine and wellbeing on her podcast [‘The Inner Table; The Art of Living Well’](https://open.spotify.com/show/4lK6D21rUv4bTXmjmucKu5?si=c2beca69ac564a57). ## **More divorce resources** ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=libby) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=libby) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=libby). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on navigating separation with kindness, rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 192 — Plot twist: Ebele Okobi's separation story Published: 2026-04-29 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/ebele-okobi-separation-story > In this episode, Kate is joined by Ebele Okobi, who has held senior roles at OpenAI, Meta and Nike. But in this conversation, it's her separation story that takes centre stage. And this one is different – you'll want to stay right till the end to find out why. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Ebele Okobi](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebeleokobi/), who has held senior roles at OpenAI, Meta and Nike. But in this conversation, it's her separation story that takes centre stage. And this one is different – you'll want to stay right till the end to find out why. We talk about: - The circumstances that led Ebele to the decision to separate - How society can make it harder to do things kindly – both in divorce and co-parenting - How Ebele’s children and friends responded to the news - Why communication matters so much through separation - How certain revelations can completely change the way you see your life and your relationship There's a big reveal at the end – and it's worth the wait. This episode is for anyone navigating separation and looking for a story of hope – and a reminder that there's not a single right way to do this. **Trigger warning:** This episode touches on content some listeners may find distressing, including violence, murder, police brutality, racial discrimination and genocide. Please take care of yourself while listening. ## Meet Ebele Okobi [Ebele Okobi](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ebeleokobi/) is the principal of Revolutionary Projects, an advisor, board member and maker of good trouble with 25 years of experience leading global teams across tech, consumer brands and arts institutions. With a background spanning corporate law, policy and the C-suite – including roles at OpenAI, Facebook/Meta, Nike and Dr. Martens – she now focuses her energy on organisations that push towards joy, justice and better worlds. ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=ebele) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=ebele) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists.[Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=ebele). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on navigating separation with kindness, rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 191 — In brief: Why emotions matter as much as the law in divorce Published: 2026-04-22 · Duration: 27 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-why-emotions-matter-as-much-as-the-law-in-divorce > Divorce is an emotional journey with legal and financial consequences – but what happens when the professionals helping you through it don't understand that? Divorce is an emotional journey with legal and financial consequences – but what happens when the professionals helping you through it don't understand that? Kate is joined by [Annmarie Carvalho](https://carvalhotherapy.com/), award-winning therapist and former family solicitor, to explore why the emotional side of divorce matters just as much as the legal side – and what that looks like in practice. **We talk about:** - From solicitor to therapist – and why the emotional side of divorce drew Annmarie in - How to spot a legal professional who truly gets the emotional journey - Why the five stages of grief is a myth – and what healing post-divorce really looks like - The skills that help you navigate divorce negotiations more effectively - Practical tips to support your wellbeing during separation This episode is for anyone going through separation who wants to feel more understood, more prepared and more in control of how they show up through the process. **Meet Annmarie Carvalho** [Annmarie Carvalho](https://carvalhotherapy.com/people/annmarie-carvalho/) is a multi-award winning therapist, trainer and public speaker. Before retraining to become a therapist, she was a family solicitor and mediator at Central London law firm Farrer & Co for over a decade. Annmarie set up the [therapy, training and coaching agency TCC](https://carvalhotherapy.com/) in 2018 with a mission to provide better mental health support and improve psychological understanding amongst lawyers and those working in and around the legal profession. Since then, she has worked therapeutically with hundreds of members of the legal profession and trained many more, with a goal to help those in the profession ‘stay sane’. Her first book _[‘Staying Sane in Family Law’](https://bathpublishing.com/products/staying-sane-in-family-law)_ is aimed at helping legal professionals better understand the psychological demands of family law work.  You can [learn more about Annmarie’s work on her website](https://carvalhotherapy.com/) and you can [get in touch with her on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/annmarie-carvalhotrainingandtherapy/) or [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/the_carvalho_consultancy/). **More divorce resources** **Ready to take a practical next step? ** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=annmarie_carvalho) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  **Want ongoing support through separation?** Kate’s book _[amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X)_ includes dedicated chapters on emotional readiness, navigating separation with kindness and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). **#EmotionalJourney** --- ## Episode 190 — Hal Cruttenden: no joke – the honest truth about divorce Published: 2026-04-15 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/hal-cruttenden-honest-truth-about-divorce > Hal Cruttenden has found the funny side of divorce – most recently in his show 'Can Dish It Out But Can't Take It'. But in this conversation, he goes deeper and gets honest about what it's really been like. **Hal Cruttenden** has found the funny side of divorce – most recently in his show ['Can Dish It Out But Can't Take It'](https://halcruttenden.com/). But in this conversation, he goes deeper and gets honest about what it's really been like. Kate is joined by comedian **Hal Cruttenden**, who talks candidly about his own separation story – from infidelity to dating after divorce, and everything in between.  We talk about: - How separation affects your confidence and sense of self - What lazy versus comfortable looks like in a relationship - Why friendships matter so much during divorce - Experiencing infidelity and how it shapes your co-parenting relationship going forward - Dating after divorce and learning to enjoy your own company again This episode is for anyone navigating separation who wants an honest, warm and at times funny perspective on what life on the other side can look like. _A quick note – this episode includes open discussion of poor mental health and depression, as well as sex. Please listen with care and out of earshot of children._ ## ## Meet Hal Cruttenden **Hal Cruttenden** is a stand-up comedian, actor and podcaster. In his latest show, [Hal Cruttenden: Can Dish It Out But Can't Take It](https://halcruttenden.com/), he discussed the devastation of his divorce - after 20 years of marriage his wife left him. Now, three years on, Hal is determined to stick it to The Man (as long as The Man doesn’t stick it back to him). Packed with hilarious pontificating on middle-aged dating, social media, the insanity of modern politics and the fragility of marriage, Hal talks about swapping supposed security and a silver anniversary, for dating apps and the unexpected shift of being offered life advice by your kids. You can [learn more about Hal and book a ticket to his show on his website](https://halcruttenden.com/). You can also follow him on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/hcruttenden/), [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/halcruttenden) and [X](https://x.com/halcruttenden) to hear more about his life post-divorce.  ## ## More divorce resources ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=hal) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=hal) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists.[Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=hal). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on navigating separation with kindness, rebuilding your identity and moving forward with confidence. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 189 — In brief: Complex assets in divorce, made simple Published: 2026-04-08 · Duration: 15 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-complex-assets-in-divorce-made-simple > Shares, crypto, business interests. Complex assets can feel like a foreign language during divorce – but with the right knowledge, they don't have to. Shares, crypto, business interests. Complex assets can feel like a foreign language during divorce – but with the right knowledge, they don't have to. Kate is joined by **Tom Francis**, Head of Personal Finance at [Octopus Money](http://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=Podcast&utm_content=ComplexAssets), to explore what complex assets actually are, how they're approached in a divorce settlement and how to feel confident making the most of your finances after divorce. **We talk about:** - What makes an asset 'complex' – and the three levels of complexity - What can and can't be divided in a divorce settlement - What to consider when negotiating complex assets - Tips for understanding your assets and building financial confidence post-divorce This episode is for anyone who feels overwhelmed by the financial side of divorce – and is ready to feel more in control of their future. ## Meet Tom Francis [Tom](https://www.instagram.com/planwithtom) is Head of Personal Finance at [Octopus Money](http://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=Podcast&utm_content=ComplexAssets), a money advice brand for everyone. Tom spends his time designing the customer journey to deliver regulated financial advice to the many, using the best of technology and humanity. He’s a fully qualified and chartered financial planner, and before joining Octopus Money, he played a leading role in building and scaling robo-advisers in the UK, including Wealthsimple (which was later sold to Moneyfarm) and Nutmeg. Tom joined us previously to explore how to talk about money in relationships and divorce — [listen to that episode here](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-talk-about-money-in-relationships-and-divorce). You can learn more about [Octopus Money](http://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=Podcast&utm_content=ComplexAssets) on their website. You can also hear more financial advice from Tom on the [Keep the Change podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/6zvSXBUcOGCOuNNRtlU5QD?si=5bb6e01fdcdf48cc), and [follow him on Instagram](http://instagram.com/planwithtom/followers/mutualOnly?hl=en) for bite-sized money tips.  ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to take a practical next step?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=complex_assets) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  You can also [book a free consultation with an Octopus Money expert](http://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=Podcast&utm_content=ComplexAssets) for specialist financial guidance alongside your separation. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=complex_assets) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles on finances and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists.[Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=complex_assets). Kate’s book _[amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X)_ includes a dedicated chapter on navigating finances during separation, including reaching financial agreements based on your real needs (not just 50/50 splits) and guidance on commonly overlooked assets like pensions. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 188 — The ‘selfish’ woman's guide to divorce Published: 2026-04-01 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/the-selfish-womans-guide-to-divorce > If you've ever felt guilty for putting yourself first, this episode is for you. If you've ever felt guilty for putting yourself first, this episode is for you. ## Redefining what being ‘selfish’ means after divorce Kate is joined by [Valerie Jones](https://valeriejones.ca/), author, coach and founder of The Selfish Woman movement, to explore what it really means to be a 'selfish woman' in divorce - and why reclaiming that word could be one of the most important things you do for yourself. We talk about: - What being a 'selfish woman' really means – and why reclaiming it matters - The concepts of the 'first girl' and the 'hurt girl' – and how to reconnect with both - How to rebuild self-trust when divorce has knocked your confidence - The moment Valerie knew it was time to leave her marriage - The difference between healthy guilt and the kind that holds you back - Why taking a moment to pause is one of the most powerful things you can do - Practical ways to start showing up for yourself again This episode is for any woman who has ever put herself last – whether she’s in the middle of separation, still deciding or rebuilding life on the other side. ### **What does it mean to be a 'selfish' woman during divorce?** Being selfish isn't about doing whatever you want, whenever you want. It's about being genuinely connected to yourself – who you really are, what you need and what's right for you.  During divorce, it's very common to realise you've spent years putting everyone else first and losing sight of yourself in the process. Being 'selfish' in this sense means stopping that pattern. It means pausing before automatically saying yes to everyone else and actually asking: how do I feel, and what do I need? That's not selfish in the negative sense of the word - It's essential. ### **Why does being ‘selfish’ often feel different for women?** Research shows that women are more likely to be expected to be caring, accommodating and selfless – and are often judged more harshly when they prioritise their own needs. [Studies on gender roles show](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00484/full) that women are stereotyped as more communal and self-sacrificing, and expected to prioritise others’ needs over their own, in contrast to men who are expected to be more self-assertive and independent. This can make even small acts of self-focus feel uncomfortable or ‘wrong’. Research also suggests that [women tend to have stronger moral identities and are more likely to experience guilt when they don’t meet others’ expectations](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-a-new-home/202301/men-are-more-selfishly-dishonest-than-women), which can make prioritising their own needs feel morally difficult – even when it’s reasonable. That conditioning runs deep – and it can keep women stuck in situations that aren't right for them long after the signs are there to leave. The word 'selfish' has been used to make women feel guilty for having needs. But what if we flipped it? What if selfish simply meant: connected to yourself? Because when you're not connected to yourself, you're not acting from a place of strength – you're acting from fear, exhaustion and the need for everyone else's approval.  While this experience isn’t limited to women, it’s one many women recognise – particularly during and after separation. ### **How do I know if my guilt is healthy or holding me back?** Guilt has a useful job. It's there to tell you when you've genuinely done something wrong – when you've acted in a way that's unkind or caused real harm. That kind of guilt is worth listening to.  But there's another kind of guilt that's far more common during and after divorce, and it's not actually guilt at all - it's discomfort. It's the uncomfortable feeling of making a choice that's right for you, while knowing that someone else is upset or disappointed by it. You haven't done anything wrong; you've just made a decision for yourself, and someone else is having an experience of that. Once you can see the difference, it becomes a little easier to sit with that discomfort – and to keep moving forward anyway. ### **How to start showing up for yourself again after divorce – and rebuild self-trust** If you've spent years putting everyone else first, coming back to yourself takes time – and that's okay. You don't need to make big, dramatic changes to start feeling more like you again. Small, consistent steps are enough. Here are three small things to try: - **Use the power of the pause.** In those moments when you'd normally just keep going – keep giving, keep saying yes – stop for a couple of seconds and ask yourself: how do I feel right now, and what do I need? Interrupting the pattern helps you become more aware of it. - **Try five minutes of journalling a day.** Writing your thoughts down on paper gets them out of your head and helps you observe them more clearly. **Ask yourself one simple question: does this feel good, or does this feel bad?** It’s a powerful way to tune back into your own instincts. **Listen to the full episode** to hear Valerie explore these tips in more detail. ## Meet Valerie Jones **Valerie Jones** is the author of _[The Selfish Year](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selfish-Year-Power-Putting-Yourself/dp/1394342713/ref=asc_df_1394342713?mcid=a78cc97e2fd1399bb80d923b7d4e6fa0&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=747964541433&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15223168451163772866&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044956&hvtargid=pla-2419067311083&psc=1&hvocijid=15223168451163772866-1394342713-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1)_, host of [The Selfish Woman podcast](https://valeriejones.ca/podcast), and founder of [The Selfish Woman movement](https://valeriejones.ca/). Her work helps women let go of ‘good girl’ conditioning and people-pleasing, stop seeking external approval and build unapologetic self-trust. Valerie meets women exactly where they are and helps them show up for themselves, fully.  You can [learn more about Valerie on her website](https://valeriejones.ca/) and [buy her book _The Selfish Year_ on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selfish-Year-Power-Putting-Yourself/dp/1394342713/ref=asc_df_1394342713?mcid=a78cc97e2fd1399bb80d923b7d4e6fa0&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=747964541433&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15223168451163772866&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9044956&hvtargid=pla-2419067311083&psc=1&hvocijid=15223168451163772866-1394342713-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1). [Complete Valerie's quiz](https://subscribepage.io/revealyourmask) to find out the hidden ways you might be sabotaging yourself.  ## More divorce resources ### **Ready to take a practical next step?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=selfish) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=selfish) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=selfish). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on navigating the emotional journey of separation, as well as practical advice to help you through every step of the process. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 187 — In brief: The hidden cost of delaying divorce Published: 2026-03-25 · Duration: 20 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/hidden-cost-of-delaying-divorce > You know your marriage is over. But you're still waiting – for the right moment, more certainty, or permission you're not sure will ever come. This episode is for anyone who's been circling the same question and is ready to stop waiting and start moving forward. You know your marriage is over. But you're still waiting – for the right moment, more certainty, or permission you're not sure will ever come. This episode is for anyone who's been circling the same question and is ready to stop waiting and start moving forward. Kate is joined by [Farhana Hussain](https://mydivorcedoula.org.uk/), the UK's first divorce doula and author of _[She's Not Done Yet](https://amzn.eu/d/02S3OaZc)_, to explore what keeps people stuck in the space between knowing their marriage is over and actually applying for divorce – and how moving forward is about choosing to become the author of your own life. **We talk about:** - Farhana’s own separation story and what led her to write _She’s Not Done Yet_ - Why people wait – even when they know what they want - Why even amicable divorces can lead to being stuck - The emotional and practical cost of delay - Decision fatigue and why divorce is never just one decision - How to stop waiting for permission and start authoring your own life This episode is for anyone who feels like their life is on hold - and is ready to stop waiting and start moving forward. ## **Meet the Divorce Doula** Farhana Hussain is the UK’s first Divorce Doula, founder of the award-winning business [My Divorce Doula™](https://mydivorcedoula.org.uk/), and author of _[She’s Not Done Yet: A Divorce Doula’s Manifesto for Women Who Refuse to Stay Stuck](https://amzn.eu/d/02S3OaZc)_. Farhana helps people move from circling the same question to making a clear decision they can stand behind, so they enter the divorce process grounded, prepared and able to engage constructively. You can [get in touch with Farhana through her website](https://mydivorcedoula.org.uk/) and you can [buy her book on Amazon](https://amzn.eu/d/02S3OaZc) today. ## **More divorce resources** ### Ready to take a practical next step? Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=divorce_doula) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation.  ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=divorce_doula) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/become-a-member?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=divorce_doula). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on navigating the early stages of separation, including deciding whether your relationship is over and having the separation conversation in a way that reduces shock and defensiveness. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 186 — Blended family life: the realities and how to make it work Published: 2026-03-18 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/blended-family-life-the-realities > If you’re navigating life in a stepfamily and finding the dynamics more complex than you expected, this episode offers practical guidance to help you build stronger, healthier relationships. If you’re navigating life in a stepfamily and finding the dynamics more complex than you expected, this episode offers practical guidance to help you build stronger, healthier relationships. In this episode, Kate is joined by [April Eldemire](https://www.couples-thrive.com/), a licensed marriage and family therapist and former stepmum, and **Bec Jones**, Head of Negotiation at amicable, to explore the realities of blended and stepfamily life. Together, they unpack some of the most common challenges blended families face and share thoughtful advice on how to create a more connected and supportive family environment. We talk about: - How the 'evil stepmother' stereotype still affects stepmums today - Common challenges when creating blended families - Setting boundaries and approaching discipline in stepfamilies - How the couple’s relationship can shape stepfamily stability - Building strong relationships with stepchildren over time This episode is for parents and step-parents building blended families, who want to approach stepfamily life with more understanding, patience and confidence. ## Meet April and Bec **April Eldemire** is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, former stepmum, and the creator of [The Blended Family Alignment Blueprint](https://www.couples-thrive.com/the-blended-family-alignment-blueprint-end-power-struggles-and-parent-as-a-team-2?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio&fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMjU2MjgxMDQwNTU4AAGnzlGGARG2ighjKy4lyNZpyWokFJrrbXW19vivbm1gF0zTQJ5YAPRkYoUz8Ek_aem_nDxsedXrljBAhyL6NYEmZA), a framework that helps couples end power struggles and parent as a united team. While April’s own blended family didn’t last, her journey fuels her passion for helping others avoid the same mistakes she made. With over 13 years of experience specialising in stepfamily dynamics, she’s on a mission to help families replace conflict with teamwork and build homes where love can finally lead. Having had over 10 years of experience as a divorce lawyer, **Bec Jones** leads [amicable's Negotiation team](https://amicable.io/team?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum). She played a vital role in developing the amicable process and is renowned for her empathetic approach. With expertise in child arrangements, blended families and complex finances, she is a fountain of knowledge. ## More divorce resources ### **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. Try the [amicable co-parenting app free for 3 months](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum) to share calendars, track expenses and communicate clearly. Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=step_mum) on your phone, install the app, create your account, select 'I have a promo code', enter PODCAST and press ‘apply’. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 185 — In brief: Divorce with adult children Published: 2026-03-11 · Duration: 10 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-divorce-with-adult-children > If you’re separating with adult children and finding it more emotionally complicated than you expected, this episode offers calm, reassuring guidance to help you navigate it with care. If you’re separating with adult children and finding it more emotionally complicated than you expected, this episode offers calm, reassuring guidance to help you navigate it with care. In this episode, Kate shares thoughtful, practical tips for separating when your children are grown. She explores why adult children are still deeply affected by family change and how the way you handle separation now can shape your family relationships for years to come. In this episode, Kate covers: - How to talk to your adult children about separation in a calm, respectful way - What practical conversations to have early with your ex-partner – from holidays and celebrations to future grandchildren - How kindness, clear boundaries and thoughtful planning now can support a healthier extended family long term This episode is for parents going through separation with adult children who want to handle it with empathy, steadiness and care, while protecting the relationships that matter most. ## More divorce resources ### **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward? ** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=adult_kids) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=adult_kids) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. ### **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=adult_kids) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=adult_kids). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes dedicated chapters on co-parenting, with practical guidance on supporting your children's wellbeing, talking to them in age-appropriate ways and building a cooperative co-parenting relationship that reduces conflict. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 184 — How to heal after separation: 44 things I tried Published: 2026-03-04 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-heal-after-separation-44-ideas > If you’re trying to feel better after separation and make sense of what healing really looks like, this episode offers honest reassurance and practical guidance for moving forward with self-compassion. If you’re trying to feel better after separation and make sense of what healing really looks like, this episode offers honest reassurance and practical guidance for moving forward with self-compassion. Kate is joined by Corey Seemiller, award-winning leadership professor and author of _[The Soulmate Strategy](https://www.coreyseemiller.com/relationship-coach/the-soulmate-strategy-book/)_, to explore what helped her recover after a split and why continuing to try new approaches was an important part of her healing. **In this episode, we cover:** - Corey’s personal separation story and early steps toward healing - What worked and what didn’t from the 44 different things she tried to feel better - How writing a deeply personal book shaped her career and academic research - Practical, realistic advice for moving forward after separation and building healthier relationships This episode is for anyone navigating life after a breakup who wants reassurance that healing isn’t linear and that growth often comes from curiosity and kindness towards yourself. **Trigger warning: **this episode includes discussion of physical injury, so please listen with care. **Meet Corey Seemiller** [Corey Seemiller](https://www.coreyseemiller.com/) is an award-winning leadership professor, author and accredited life coach. After her own separation, she experimented with 44 different approaches to healing – a journey that became the foundation for her book _The Soulmate Strategy_ and shaped her academic research on relationships and personal growth. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, Time Magazine and Newsweek, and [her highly popular TED Talk](https://youtu.be/cN0hyudK7nE?si=2Xem_Vy3-TpFhGZA). She co-hosts the [Rock That Relationship! podcast](https://www.coreyseemiller.com/relationship-coach/podcast/), discussing disasters and successes with breakups, healing processes, dating and relationships. You can learn more about Corey’s new book _The Soulmate Strategy_ [here](https://www.coreyseemiller.com/relationship-coach/the-soulmate-strategy-book/). For more relationship advice, you can tune in to the [Rock That Relationship! podcast](https://www.coreyseemiller.com/relationship-coach/podcast/) **More divorce resources** **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=corey_s) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=corey_s) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars and articles on emotional wellbeing and life after divorce - plus an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=corey_s). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes a dedicated chapter about healing post-separation and moving on. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 183 — In brief: Making a house move smoother after separation Published: 2026-02-25 · Duration: 13 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-house-move-after-separation > If you’re facing a house move during or after separation and feeling overwhelmed by the logistics, emotions or sheer volume of decisions, this episode offers calm, practical guidance to help you feel more in control. If you’re facing a house move during or after separation and feeling overwhelmed by the logistics, emotions or sheer volume of decisions, this episode offers calm, practical guidance to help you feel more in control. Kate is joined by moving experts **Nicholas Illingworth** and **James Mehmet** from [Abels Moving Services](https://shorturl.at/9t0P5) to share practical guidance that will help you feel more prepared for the move in just a few minutes. **In this episode, we cover:** - The key differences between a standard house move and moving after separation - Why detailed planning is especially important when emotions are running high - Practical packing tips to reduce stress and last-minute panic - Strategies to make the move smoother for you and your family - Common logistics mistakes to avoid when moving out post-divorce This episode is for anyone moving house during or after a separation who wants clear, expert-led advice to make the process more organised and a little less daunting. **About Abels** **Nicholas Illingworth** (Partnership Manager) and **James Mehmet** (Branch Manager and Head of Special Projects) are moving experts at [Abels Moving Services](https://shorturl.at/9t0P5). Since 1958, [Abels Moving Services](https://shorturl.at/9t0P5) has specialised in high-quality [International shipping](https://www.abels.co.uk/moving-abroad/international-removals-services/), [home removals](https://www.abels.co.uk/moving-home/uk-home-removals/) and [storage](https://www.abels.co.uk/storage-solutions/) - including sensitive moves during separation, where emotional and practical considerations require extra care. Their in-house moving teams are experts in [moving antiques](https://www.abels.co.uk/moving-home/fine-art-and-antiques-removals/) and specialist items such as pianos, grandfather clocks and fine art alongside day-to-day household items and furniture. **More divorce resources** **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=abels) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=abels) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=abels). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) includes practical advice for navigating all aspects of separation — from early decisions to financial planning and rebuilding after divorce. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 182 — How to talk about money in relationships and divorce Published: 2026-02-23 · Duration: 32 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-talk-about-money-in-relationships-and-divorce > If money conversations in relationships feel uncomfortable, overwhelming or you avoid them altogether, this episode offers practical guidance on financial transparency and being open and honest about money. If money conversations in relationships feel uncomfortable, overwhelming or you avoid them altogether, this episode offers practical guidance on financial transparency and being open and honest about money. Kate is joined by **Tom Francis**, Head of Personal Finance at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=FinancialResiliencePodcast&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), to explore why money conversations feel so difficult in relationships – and how financial transparency during separation can help you feel more confident and reduce conflict. In this episode, we cover: - What financial transparency looks like in relationships and during separation - How to start understanding your own finances and build confidence - Why money conversations feel so difficult - Practical ways to approach financial discussions constructively - How financial openness supports a smoother, fairer separation This episode is for anyone navigating separation or divorce who wants to feel more informed and to make clearer financial decisions with confidence. **Meet Tom Francis** [Tom](https://www.instagram.com/planwithtom) is Head of Personal Finance at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=FinancialResiliencePodcast&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), a money advice brand for everyone. Tom spends his time designing the customer journey to deliver regulated financial advice to the many, using the best of technology and humanity. He’s a fully qualified and chartered financial planner, and before joining Octopus Money, he played a leading role in building and scaling robo-advisers in the UK, including Wealthsimple (which was later sold to Moneyfarm) and Nutmeg. You can learn more about [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=FinancialResiliencePodcast&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) on their website, and you can also [book a free consultation with a money expert here](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=FinancialResiliencePodcast&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa). You can hear more financial advice from Tom on [Keep the Change podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/6zvSXBUcOGCOuNNRtlU5QD?si=5bb6e01fdcdf48cc), and make sure to [follow him on Instagram](http://instagram.com/planwithtom/followers/mutualOnly?hl=en) for more bite-sized money tips.  **More divorce resources** **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=fintransparency) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. **Want ongoing support through your separation journey?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=fintransparency) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=fintransparency). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March, including dedicated chapters with practical guidance on dealing with money during and after separation. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 181 — Breaking free from shame and self-blame after divorce Published: 2026-02-18 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/shame-and-self-blame-after-divorce > If you came out of a relationship feeling ashamed, stuck in self-blame or questioning your self-worth, this episode offers compassionate guidance to help you heal and rebuild confidence. If you came out of a relationship feeling ashamed, stuck in self-blame or questioning your self-worth, this episode offers compassionate guidance to help you heal and rebuild confidence. Kate is joined by [Sarah Wilson](https://sarahwilson.co.uk/), founder of Coastal Coaching and host of The Inner SUCCESS Story podcast, to explore how toxic relationship patterns form, why shame often follows separation and how low self-esteem can make breakups feel even more painful - especially if you were the one who chose to leave. **In this episode, we cover:** - Sarah’s personal experience of staying in an unhealthy relationship - How shame can show up after a breakup  - The link between childhood experiences and adult relationship patterns - Why low self-esteem can worsen the emotional impact of separation - Actionable steps to build self-love and self-compassion post-divorce This episode is for anyone navigating the emotional aftermath of a difficult breakup who wants to understand themselves with more compassion and begin rebuilding confidence from a steadier place. **Trigger warning: **this episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing, including toxic relationships, emotional abuse and shame. **Meet Sarah Wilson** Sarah is the founder of Coastal Coaching (Sussex) Limited, a keynote speaker and the host of _The Inner SUCCESS Story_ podcast. Her early family relationships shaped a deep sense of not being good enough, a pattern that followed her into adulthood and her marriage. After leaving an emotionally abusive relationship, and inspired by her young son, she committed to deep personal change. In 2020, Sarah founded Coastal Coaching to support professionals stepping into leadership and help them build confidence from the inside out. Her work is grounded in accredited coaching practice, lived experience and a belief that people have more choice than they realise.  You can [learn more about Sarah on her website](https://sarahwilson.co.uk/) or you can [get in touch with her on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahwilsoncoach/). For more tips on how to break free from self-sabotaging habits, you can tune in to her podcast [The Inner S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Story](https://sarahwilsoncoach.buzzsprout.com/). **More divorce resources** **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=shame) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=shame) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=shame). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March, including practical guidance on emotional recovery, self-compassion and moving forward after separation. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 180 — Constructive conflict: how to argue well during divorce Published: 2026-02-16 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-80-constructive-conflict-during-divorce-eve-stanway > If you’re finding conflict hard to manage during separation and co-parenting, this episode is full of practical tips to help you disagree in a calmer, more constructive way. Kate is joined by psychotherapist and divorce coach to explore why arguments aren’t always a bad thing – and how learning to disagree well can transform your relationship with your ex-partner and your children. If you’re finding conflict hard to manage during separation and co-parenting, this episode is full of practical tips to help you disagree in a calmer, more constructive way. Kate is joined by psychotherapist and divorce coach  to explore why arguments aren’t always a bad thing – and how learning to disagree well can transform your relationship with your ex-partner and your children. In this episode, we cover: - Eve’s separation story and how arguments shaped it  - Why arguments don’t have to be destructive - How to break cycles of unproductive conflict - The key skills that stop disagreements from escalating - Why self-regulation matters during separation and co-parenting - How to have productive arguments with your children This episode is for anyone navigating separation or co-parenting who wants to reduce conflict and communicate more effectively. ## Meet Eve Stanway Eve is a psychotherapist with 25 years of experience, break-up and divorce coach and published author who specialises in guiding parents, individuals and professionals through separation, co-parenting and recovery from toxic relationships.  You can learn more about Eve and get in touch with her on our website. For more helpful communication tips, you can tune in to her brand-new podcast, Dare To Speak: Difficult Conversations That Changed Everything.  ## **More divorce resources** ### **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=argument) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. ### **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=argument) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/your-feed?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=argument). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March, including practical guidance on emotional recovery, self-compassion and moving forward after separation. [Find it on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. ### **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 179 — In brief: amicable divorce - a preview of Kate's new book Published: 2026-02-11 · Duration: 15 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-preview-of-kates-new-book > If you’re separating or divorcing and want to avoid unnecessary conflict, this episode offers an exclusive preview of Kate's book amicable divorce – with practical guidance straight from the author to help you approach separation in a calmer, more child-focused way. If you’re separating or divorcing and want to avoid unnecessary conflict, this episode offers an exclusive preview of Kate's book _[amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X)_ – with practical guidance straight from the author to help you approach separation in a calmer, more child-focused way. In this special mini episode, Kate takes you through the key chapters of _amicable divorce_, sharing the insights, stories and expert guidance that shaped the book – from changing the negative story we tell about divorce to helping parents see separation through their children’s eyes. **Kate covers:** - How slowing down at the start can prevent long-term conflict - Why emotional readiness matters as much as legal steps - What ‘amicable’ really means – and what it doesn’t - How to make child-focused decisions about parenting and money - Why understanding finances reduces fear and arguments - How to move from ‘us’ to ‘me’ with care and self-compassion This episode is for anyone considering or going through separation who wants practical, child-focused guidance to approach divorce with less blame and more clarity. **_About amicable divorce_** _[amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X)_ is Kate's practical guide to navigating separation with less conflict and more compassion. Drawing from her experience supporting thousands of couples, it includes real stories, expert insights and child-focused guidance for every stage of the process. Out in March 2026 – [order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **More divorce resources:** **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join [amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=book) for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive content and webinars on navigating separation – plus a supportive community where you can share questions and get expert advice. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=book). **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=book) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial or co-parenting aspects of separation. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=book) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=book) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter **PODCAST**, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 178 — How to have a ‘good divorce’ in practice Published: 2026-02-09 · Duration: 42 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-have-good-divorce-in-practice > If you’re trying to navigate divorce in a way that protects your children, your career and your wellbeing, this episode offers practical, reassuring guidance on doing it with intention and care. If you’re trying to navigate divorce in a way that protects your children, your career and your wellbeing, this episode offers practical, reassuring guidance on doing it with intention and care. Kate is joined by Sarah Madden Armstrong, Vice President of Global Marketing Operations at Google and author of [The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce](https://www.momsguidetogooddivorce.com/), to explore what a ‘good divorce’ can really look like when children are involved. In this episode, we cover: - Sarah’s separation story and what a ‘good divorce’ meant for her family - How to put your children at the centre of all decisions - Practical ways to co-parent with kindness and consideration - Balancing a career, childcare and the emotional load of divorce - Making space for self-care while navigating separation This episode is for parents going through divorce who want to reduce conflict, support their children and move forward in a thoughtful, steady way. **Meet Sarah Armstrong** Sarah Madden Armstrong is Vice President of Global Marketing Operations at Google, a former McKinsey partner and author of two books: The Art of the Juggling Act: A Bite-Sized Guide for Working Parents and [The Mom's Guide to a Good Divorce](https://www.momsguidetogooddivorce.com/). She is also the proud mom of Grace, now a college graduate.  [The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce](https://www.momsguidetogooddivorce.com/) offers parents ‘bite-sized’ pieces of practical advice on what to think through when going through a divorce and children are involved. As a working parent who navigated her own divorce, Sarah now advocates for the ‘good divorce’ concept – helping parents understand that divorce doesn't have to damage their children or derail their lives. She has shared her message on nearly 75 podcasts and in traditional media to shift how society views divorce outcomes. Find Sarah’s book [The Mom’s Guide to a Good Divorce](https://www.momsguidetogooddivorce.com/) and explore ways to buy it [here](https://www.momsguidetogooddivorce.com/). **More divorce resources** **Looking for expert guidance on co-parenting?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=gooddivorce) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial, emotional or co-parenting aspects of separation. Or explore our [Separating with Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=gooddivorce) – a 90-minute joint session with a Co-parenting Specialist tailored to your family’s needs. Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March, including dedicated chapters on co-parenting, communication and putting children first during separation. [Order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Want to stay organised as co-parents?** [Download our free Parenting Plan template](https://amicable.io/parenting-plan-ebook?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=gooddivorce) to help you and your co-parent agree on shared goals, routines and decision-making – with your children at the centre. As a thank you for listening, here’s 3 months of the [amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=gooddivorce) for free! Open [this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=gooddivorce) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 177 — People-pleasing in divorce, with Emma Reed Turrell Published: 2026-02-04 · Duration: 45 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/people-pleasing-in-divorce > If you’ve ever found yourself saying yes when you want to say no or always putting everyone else first, this episode will help you understand why – and what it’s costing you. If you’ve ever found yourself saying yes when you want to say no or always putting everyone else first, this episode will help you understand why – and what it’s costing you. People-pleasing can feel like kindness, but during separation it often leads to burnout, resentment and decisions that don’t truly work for you. Kate is joined by author and psychotherapist [Emma Reed Turrell](https://emmareedturrell.com/), who opens up about her own divorce for the first time and shares practical insights on how people-pleasing shows up in relationships and separation – and how to prevent it from affecting your wellbeing or practical outcomes. **In this episode, you will learn:** - Emma Reed Turrell’s personal divorce story - What people-pleasing looks like in relationships and divorce - The difference between being kind and giving too much - Why people-pleasing often leads to burnout during separation - How people-pleasing can affect your wellbeing and long-term outcomes - Small but meaningful ways to start setting boundaries without guilt This episode is for anyone going through divorce who struggles to prioritise their own needs and feels responsible for keeping everyone else okay. **Meet Emma Reed Turrell** [Emma Reed Turrell](https://emmareedturrell.com/) is an author, psychotherapist and clinical supervisor. After ten years working in business, she returned to her earlier passion for psychology and retrained as a psychotherapist. Emma is qualified  in a range of therapeutic approaches, including CBT, EMDR, NLP and Hypnotherapy. Following the success of her debut book, [Please Yourself: How to Stop People-Pleasing and Transform the Way You Live](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Please-Yourself-Stop-People-Pleasing-Transform/dp/0008409374/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=), Emma has written a second book, [What Am I Missing? Discover the Four Blind Spots That are Holding You Back and How to Overcome Them](https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/454959/what-am-i-missing-by-turrell-emma-reed/9780241624982). She co-hosted the popular podcast _Best Friend Therapy_ with Elizabeth Day and hosts her own podcast, [Dial Emma](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dial-emma/id1614793299). **Get in touch with Emma** You can find out more about Emma on [her website](https://emmareedturrell.com/), learn more about people-pleasing in her book [Please Yourself: How to Stop People-Pleasing and Transform the Way You Live](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Please-Yourself-Stop-People-Pleasing-Transform/dp/0008409374/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=) or [follow her on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/emmareedturrell/). Catch Emma and Kate talk openly and honestly about divorce on [an episode on Dial Emma](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5kudBOlgYDfmEqzm3ZH97N?si=UBPwBElPTwKacLMtnaPWXQ). **More divorce resources** **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial or emotional aspects of separation.  **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=people-pleasing). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March and includes practical advice for navigating separation with kindness. [Order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 176 — How yoga can help you stay calm during divorce Published: 2026-02-02 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-yoga-can-help-you-stay-calm-during-divorce > If you’re feeling overwhelmed, emotionally reactive or simply worn out during divorce, this episode offers gentle, practical ways to feel calmer and more in control. If you’re feeling overwhelmed, emotionally reactive or simply worn out during divorce, this episode offers gentle, practical ways to feel calmer and more in control. Kate is joined by certified yoga teacher [Cathy Eads](https://findblissyoga.com/) to explore how supportive practices like yoga, breathwork and mindfulness can help you navigate the emotional ups and downs of separation. **In this episode, we cover:** - Cathy’s separation story and how it led her to yoga - How yoga and Ayurveda support emotional regulation - Why learning to respond instead of react changes everything - Simple self-care tools you can use anywhere - walking, breathwork and more - How mindfulness helps you stay calm and present - A short grounding breathwork practice you can try yourself This episode is for anyone going through separation and looking for simple, expert-backed tools to feel steadier and calmer. **Meet Cathy Eads** Cathy Eads is a 500-hour certified yoga teacher and therapist, Ayurvedic wellness coach and founder of [BLISS Yoga](https://findblissyoga.com/). After navigating her own high-conflict divorce, she now helps women heal and rebuild during and after divorce using science-backed tools like yoga, breathwork and mindfulness.  Her Trifecta Method combines movement, breathwork and guided relaxation to promote healing from within, build resilience and calm the nervous system. She supports women through small group programmes and customised one-to-one sessions. **Connect with Cathy** [Visit Cathy’s website](https://findblissyoga.com/yoga-for-divorce/) to explore how yoga can support you through divorce, or [listen to the guided breathwork practice from this episode anytime here](https://findblissyoga.heymarvelous.com/product/71254/free-media/699604). **More divorce resources** **Feeling ready to take practical steps forward?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial or emotional aspects of separation.  **Want ongoing support through separation?** Join amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community where you can share questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=yoga). Kate’s book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March and includes practical advice for navigating separation with kindness – including managing stress and staying grounded. [Order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 175 — In brief: Solo travel after divorce - how to rebuild confidence and find joy again Published: 2026-01-28 · Duration: 25 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-solo-travel-after-divorce > If travel after divorce feels overwhelming or lonely, this episode will show you how it can actually support your healing and rebuild your confidence. **If travel after divorce feels overwhelming or lonely, this episode will show you how it can actually support your healing and rebuild your confidence.** Kate and Laura Ericson, founder of [Laura Ericson Group Trips](http://lauraericson.com/), share practical ways travel can support healing, confidence and independence after separation – and simple steps to start, even if it feels daunting right now. **We cover:** - Common barriers to travelling after separation - What the “single person tax” really means for solo travellers - The emotional and practical benefits of travelling alone after divorce - Small first steps to building up the confidence to travel on your own - Laura’s personal journey from divorce to leading group trips worldwide This episode is for anyone who’s recently separated or divorced and is curious about how travel might support their next chapter – whether you're ready to book or just exploring the idea. **Meet Laura Ericson** [Laura Ericson](http://lauraericson.com/) is the founder of Laura Ericson Group Trips, where she leads curated group trips for solo travellers seeking authentic cultural experiences and personal transformation through travel.  **Connect with Laura** Follow her adventures on Instagram [@lolawhiskey](https://www.instagram.com/lolawhiskey/?hl=en), join her [women-only Facebook Group Lola Loves Travel](https://www.facebook.com/groups/lolalovestravel) or visit [lauraericson.com](http://lauraericson.com/) to learn more about upcoming trips. You can also catch up on her podcast [Type 2 Travel](https://www.lauraericson.com/podcast). **More divorce resources** **Want ongoing support as you rebuild after divorce?** Join amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive content and webinars on life after separation – plus a supportive community where you can share questions and get expert advice. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=travel). Kate's book [amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) is out in March and includes practical advice for navigating separation with kindness – including rebuilding your identity and confidence post-divorce. [Order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. **Need expert help right now?** Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation) with an amicable expert for guidance on the legal, financial or co-parenting aspects of separation. **Got a question for a future episode?** Share your thoughts at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). --- ## Episode 174 — How to talk to your children about divorce Published: 2026-01-21 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-talk-to-your-children-about-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by parenting expert Oona Alexander to explore how parents can protect their children's wellbeing during divorce. They discuss what to say, how to listen and ways to limit the emotional impact on your family. In this episode, Kate is joined by parenting expert [Oona Alexander](https://oonaalexander.co.uk/) to explore how parents can protect their children's wellbeing during divorce. They discuss what to say, how to listen and ways to limit the emotional impact on your family. **How to support your children through divorce without passing on your pain** Oona shares practical tips for starting conversations with children about divorce and how they’re feeling. She and Kate discuss how to maintain the fine line between pushing children to express their feelings too much and not discussing them at all.  Oona also explains how to separate your own experience from your children’s and how not to project your feelings onto them. She gives invaluable advice on how to deal with your child’s challenging behaviours, navigate blame and prepare for conversations about the inevitable changes ahead. What we cover: - How to start difficult conversations about divorce with your children - Why balance matters when encouraging children to express feelings - Separating your own experience from your children’s -  Handling challenging behaviours and blame - Preparing children for changes ahead **About Oona Alexander: parenting expert and divorced mum** [Oona](https://oonaalexander.co.uk/) is a leading UK parenting expert and co-parenting specialist - as well as a divorced mum.  She helps divorcing parents move rapidly from despair and guilt to positivity and confidence, so they can create the best possible outcomes for their children.  With Oona, you discover the practical, loving steps to limit ‘damage’ to your children and help them be secure, happy and well-behaved before, during and after divorce.  **Get in touch with Oona** You can [get in touch with Oona on her website](https://oonaalexander.co.uk/). There you can also [find helpful divorce resources](https://oonaalexander.co.uk/tips-for-separating-parents/) and [book a consultation](https://oonaalexander.co.uk/help-your-child-be-secure-and-happy-consultation/). **More divorce resources** You can get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  If this episode felt useful, Kate’s upcoming book _[amicable divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X)_ goes even further, with practical guidance for navigating separation with kindness. [Order on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/amicable-divorce-Practical-Separation-Co-parenting/dp/180522610X) today. We've created _amicable space_ to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=damage). Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 173 — In brief: Why we avoid difficult conversations during divorce (Part 2) Published: 2026-01-14 · Duration: 16 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-why-we-avoid-difficult-conversations-during-divorce-part-2 > In this Part 2 mini-episode, Kate shares practical, step-by-step guidance on how to approach difficult conversations with your ex-partner – from finances to child arrangements. In this Part 2 mini-episode, Kate shares practical, step-by-step guidance on how to approach difficult conversations with your ex-partner – from finances to child arrangements. **How to have uncomfortable conversations with your ex-partner** Kate shares practical communication tips from preparing for the conversation to choosing language that helps keep things calm, and what to do if emotions run high. She also explains why documenting outcomes can make a real difference in reducing confusion and conflict later on. What we cover: - How to prepare for tricky conversations - Language tips to keep discussions from escalating - Why documenting outcomes matters **More divorce resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=difficult_convo_pt2). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 172 — Split Happens: How AI can support young people through parental separation Published: 2026-01-07 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/split-happens > This week Kate introduces Split Happens - a new digital platform created by amicable and Restored Lives to support young people aged 13-30 navigating parental separation. This week Kate introduces [Split Happens](https://splithappens.co.uk/) - a new digital platform created by amicable and Restored Lives to support young people aged 13-30 navigating parental separation. Kate is joined by Anthony Syder, Divorce & Co-parenting Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/), Shakira Paulas, Marketing Consultant at [Restored Lives](https://www.restoredlives.org/), and Helen Pittard, a family Relationship Specialist and one of the founder Trustees of Voices in the middle. They talk about how Split Happens uses AI to help young people process emotions, access support and build confidence during family separation and change. **Supporting young people through parental separation - a new approach** Kate and her guests begin by exploring the lack of accessible support and resources for young people with separated parents, and how Split Happens was created to thoughtfully fill that gap. They introduce Yuni - an AI companion built on carefully curated expert guidance and real peer experiences - and discuss why young people may find it helpful for starting important conversations, accessing support and reassurance and building the emotional skills that can support young people in their future relationships and beyond. The team explores why young people may find it easier to open up to Yuni than to parents or counsellors, and how the platform bridges the gap to real-world conversations and support. What we cover: - The gap in support for young people with separated parents - Why _Split Happens_ and Yuni were created - How parents can use the tool to open up conversations - The role of modern technology in emotional support - Long-term benefits for young people's wellbeing and future relationships  Trigger warning: this episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing, including poor mental health and suicide. **Meet our experts ** Helen is a family Relationship Specialist working directly with families and their children, easing the separation process in order to reduce conflict. She is also a major advocate for the voice of the child and one of the founder Trustees of _Voices in the Middle_. Anthony Syder is a Negotiation Specialist and the team lead for [amicable's](https://amicable.io/) financial consent order drafting team. His areas of interest include the voice of the child in separation and diverse families. Anthony was previously an accredited family mediator and also sat on the board of the Family Mediators Association. Shakira is the Social Media and Content Manager at Restored Lives, a charity supporting adults and children affected by divorce and separation. She works closely with the wider team to support course delivery, volunteer engagement, and participant outreach.  **Explore Split Happens** Whether you’re a young person navigating separation or a parent wanting to support them, [Split Happens](https://splithappens.co.uk/) is here for you. Get the support you need at splithappens.co.uk, and follow @splithappensofficial [on Instagram.](https://www.instagram.com/splithappensofficial/?hl=en) **More divorce resources** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=split_happens). Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 171 — In brief: Why we avoid difficult conversations during divorce (Part 1) Published: 2025-12-31 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-why-we-avoid-difficult-conversations-during-divorce-part-1 > In this Part 1 mini-episode, Kate shares gentle guidance on difficult conversations during divorce — from finances and children’s arrangements to talking about the future. In this Part 1 mini-episode, Kate shares gentle guidance on difficult conversations during divorce - from finances and children’s arrangements to talking about the future. **Why difficult conversations matter during divorce** Kate explores why these conversations can feel so uncomfortable, what’s really happening beneath the surface when we avoid them and why leaning into them can make separation smoother and kinder for everyone involved. Don’t miss Part 2 on 14th of January, where Kate shares simple, practical strategies to help these conversations feel calmer, clearer and more manageable. What we cover: - The conversations people most commonly avoid during separation - Why certain topics feel especially hard to talk about - Why difficult conversations matter for your future **More divorce resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=difficult_convo_pt1). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 170 — Spotlight: Navigating the holidays without your children Published: 2025-12-24 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/spotlight-navigating-holidays-without-your-children > This week, we’re revisiting a much-loved episode from last year to bring reassurance and support to parents navigating the holidays without their children. This week, we’re revisiting a much-loved episode from last year to bring reassurance and support to parents navigating the holidays without their children. In this episode, Kate is joined by amicable’s Divorce Specialists, Anthony Syder and Bec Jones, to share tips on coping with not being with your children. Perhaps your child is with their other parent, and you may be listening to this on Christmas or another special occasion. **About the episode:** This episode looks at tips and advice to help you get through. Kate and her guests begin by describing common arrangements for children and focus on typical holiday arrangements and the effects they might have on you as a parent if you don’t get to spend this time with your kids. They explore how arrangements might affect children’s feelings, and what steps you can take to ensure that everyone has a great Christmas day without feeling guilty or worried. Anthony and Bec also share tips on how to approach talking about Christmas or other holiday arrangements with your co-parent and planning the festive season in advance. They finish off by sharing some tips about self-care if you’re spending this Christmas without your children. **About our guests:** Anthony is a Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/) and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 8 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child and diverse and inclusive families.  Having had over 10 years of experience as a divorce lawyer, Bec leads amicable's Negotiation team. Bec played a vital role in developing the amicable process and is renowned for her empathetic approach. With expertise in child arrangements, blended families, and complex finances, she is a fountain of knowledge. **More resources:** We understand that special occasions can be hard to cope with if you're not spending them with your children. - If you feel that you need some professional help with mental health or simply an unbiased person to talk about your situation with, please visit [BetterHelp](https://hasofferstracking.betterhelp.com/aff_c?offer_id=40&aff_id=4178&source=amicable%20) via this [link](https://hasofferstracking.betterhelp.com/aff_c?offer_id=40&aff_id=4178&source=amicable%20) to get 20% off the first month for amicable customers. - [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/need-urgent-help/using-this-tool/) is a mental health charity that is always here to provide you with the help and support that you might need. - Alternatively, please get in touch with your GP or call 111 to get mental health help and advice. Please get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=xmas_spotlight). Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 169 — In brief: When your children don’t want to meet your new partner Published: 2025-12-17 · Duration: 13 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-children-dont-want-to-meet-my-new-partner > This week, Kate tackles one of the trickiest challenges many separated parents face: what to do when your children don’t want to meet your new partner. This week, Kate tackles one of the trickiest challenges many separated parents face: what to do when your children don’t want to meet your new partner. **Introducing a new partner (gently)** In this solo episode, Kate explores why children often react strongly to the idea of meeting a parent’s new partner — from feelings of divided loyalty to worries about how their family dynamics might change. She talks through how timing, age-appropriate conversations and thoughtful pacing can make a big difference, and why looping in your co-parent (when possible) can help keep things calm and stable. Kate also shares guidance on how to avoid putting pressure on your children, how to let trust build at their pace and how to stay steady in your parenting role so they continue to feel grounded and secure. What we cover: - Why children might resist meeting your new partner - Choosing the right time to introduce someone new - How to have age-appropriate conversations - Gentle pacing for early introductions - Staying consistent and reliable as a parent **More divorce resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=kids_new_partner). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter **PODCAST**, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 167 — In brief: How to trust your gut in practice Published: 2025-12-03 · Duration: 20 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-trust-your-gut > This week, Kate is joined by Majo Torreli, a somatic (body-based) coach, to unpack how you can ‘listen to your gut’ when it comes to relationships. This week, Kate is joined by [Majo Torreli](https://www.instagram.com/shesembodied/),[ ](https://uncouple.sharepoint.com/sites/Marketing194/Shared%20Documents/5.%20Podcast/%23167%20Majo%20T/TDP%20-%20Majo%20T.docx#_msocom_1)_a somatic (body-based) coach_, to unpack how you can ‘listen to your gut’ when it comes to relationships. **Love, somatics and self-trust** Majo opens up about how her own journey through relationships and breakups sparked a deep interest in somatics - ultimately guiding her toward becoming a somatic coach. In this conversation, she and Kate explore the subtle signals your body sends when something in a relationship feels off, and how these cues shape what Majo calls your ‘_love blueprint’_. She also breaks down what ‘trust your gut’ truly means in everyday practice and offers her best tips for becoming more attuned to your body when making decisions. What we cover: - Majo’s personal story  - What is somatic coaching? - How experiences shape your body's emotional blueprint - Reading your body's signals to understand how you really feel - How to start trusting your gut instincts more Trigger Warning: This episode mentions abuse in relationships, which some listeners might find upsetting. **Majo Torreli, a somatic coach** [Majo](https://www.shesembodied.com/) is a somatic (body-based) coach and Oxford graduate who helps women reconnect with their bodies so they can create the love, health and career they deeply desire. After a decade of feeling stuck - struggling with relationships, body image, self-worth and feminine health - she discovered somatics and experienced a complete transformation. Now, she’s trained in Somatic Sex & Relationships Coaching and Body-Oriented Coaching and guides other women through the same powerful process so they can finally feel at home in their bodies and fully alive in every area of life. **Connect with Majo** Get in touch with Majo on [her website](https://www.shesembodied.com/) and you can follow her [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/shesembodied/) and [TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@shesembodied?lang=en) for more guidance on how to understand your body’s signals and start trusting yourself more. **More divorce resources** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=trust_your_gut). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 166 — How to support a friend through separation Published: 2025-11-26 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-support-a-friend-through-separation > In this episode, Kate is joined by Aileen Harvey and Julie Fahy – best friends and hosts of the You Keep Me Sane podcast – to talk about what it really means to support a friend through separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by Aileen Harvey and Julie Fahy – best friends and hosts of the _[You Keep Me Sane](https://www.youkeepmesane.com/)_[ podcast](https://www.youkeepmesane.com/) – to talk about what it really means to support a friend through separation. **A separation story in voice notes** Kate begins by hearing Aileen’s separation story, how her friendship with Julie began and how it became a vital source of comfort. They share how Julie supported Aileen - not by offering solutions, but by simply listening - and why that kind of steady presence from a friend can mean everything. Aileen and Julie also explore what makes a great friend during life’s hardest moments and the surprising power of long voice notes. They finish with their best tips, from both perspectives, on how to show up with care, patience and love when a friend is going through a separation. Trigger warning: There’s a brief mention of physical injury at the start of this episode. **What we cover:** - Aileen and Julie’s personal stories - The best ways to support a friend through separation, from both points of view - Why listening is more powerful than problem-solving - The surprising power of long voice notes and other simple ways to be there for your friends **Meet the hosts of You Keep Me Sane** Aileen Harvey is a Scottish-born Londoner with a life story shaped by resilience, reinvention and a deep desire to support women through life’s challenges. With a background in the high-pressure world of finance, she spent years navigating a demanding, male-dominated industry before burnout pushed her to reassess what truly mattered. Facing the ups and downs of perimenopause, parenting a teenager and embracing life’s complexities inspired her to co-create her podcast [You Keep Me Sane](https://www.youkeepmesane.com/). Through the podcast, Aileen channels her life experience - from growing up in a challenging family dynamic and working in tough environments, to losing her parents and navigating personal growth - to create a space where women feel heard, understood and less alone. Julie’s journey has always been driven by a search for depth, purpose and connection. Her love for people and their stories led her to a career in documentaries, filming for National Geographic, BBC and Discovery Channel. Yet, despite the dream job, she felt an inner pull toward something deeper. Studying psychology and Kabbalah, becoming a mother and embracing life’s challenges helped her find that missing connection - not through achievements, but through vulnerability and growth. Now based in Melbourne, Julie’s life experiences, from global travels to motherhood, have inspired her to co-create [You Keep Me Sane](https://www.youkeepmesane.com/). Through the podcast, she shares her story to help others feel seen, heard and less alone - because true connection often begins where we least expect it. **Follow Aileen and Julie** You can learn more about Aileen, Julie and their podcast _You Keep Me Sane_ [here](https://www.youkeepmesane.com/). You can also [follow them on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/youkeepmesane.pod/) to be the first to hear about new episodes. **More separation resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=friends). Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 165 — In brief: Men's mental health in divorce - why it's hard and how to cope Published: 2025-11-19 · Duration: 15 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-mens-mental-health-in-divorce > This week, Kate sits down with Josh Tomeoni, founder of Narrative Financial Group and host of The Derelict Podcast, to explore why men often struggle in silence during divorce and separation and what they can do about it. This week, Kate sits down with Josh Tomeoni, founder of [Narrative Financial Group](https://narrativefinancialgroup.com/) and host of [The Derelict Podcast](https://thederelict.podbean.com/), to explore why men often struggle in silence during divorce and separation and what they can do about it. **Men's mental health during divorce: practical tips from a divorced dad** Divorce can be isolating - especially for men. Josh candidly shares his own separation story and opens up about the loneliness many men face during divorce. Together, he and Kate discuss the impact separation can have on mental health and offer actionable advice: from finding the right sources of validation to pausing and making space for yourself when everything feels overwhelming. **What we cover:** - Josh’s personal separation story - Why divorce can feel lonely for men - The hidden toll on men's mental health - Top tips for looking after yourself during and after divorce Trigger Warning: This episode mentions miscarriage. We understand this can be a sensitive topic, so please take care of yourself while listening. **Josh Tomeoni - podcast host, author and financial planner** Josh Tomeoni is a founder of [Narrative Financial Group](https://narrativefinancialgroup.com/) and host of [The Derelict Podcast](https://thederelict.podbean.com/). He spent over 20 years in wealth management and financial strategy, specialising in helping high-earning divorced men rebuild both their finances and their lives. As a divorced dad himself, he combines practical guidance with a deep understanding of how divorce impacts wealth, identity and fatherhood. Josh’s passion is equipping men with the tools to recover financially, protect their lifestyle and thrive in their next chapter. **Connect with Josh:** Get in touch with Josh [on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/joshthederelict/?hl=en) - @joshthederelict and ask to speak to him directly. You can also [purchase his book](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Traps-Face-Divorce-Triumph-Over-ebook/dp/B0DM6N4BH6/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0S0artWusKYTHPAcensmWw.6rfIZUJuW59pM94ZyjlCimpsp_qNpbrOAtXRtuSOFAs&dib_tag=se&qid=1763044193&refinements=p_27%3AJosh+Tomeoni&s=digital-text&sr=1-1&text=Josh+Tomeoni) _The 5 Traps Men Face in Divorce...and How to Triumph Over Them!_ on Amazon. **More divorce resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=friends). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now:  --- ## Episode 164 — Finding calm during divorce with former combat pilot Sarah Furness Published: 2025-11-12 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/finding-calm-during-divorce-with-former-combat-pilot-sarah-furness > In this episode, Kate is joined by Sarah Furness, performance expert and former combat helicopter pilot, to hear her story of separation and what she’s learned along the way. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Sarah Furness](https://sarahfurness.com/), performance expert and former combat helicopter pilot, to hear her story of separation and what she’s learned along the way. **Mindfulness and resilience during divorce** Sarah opens up about her experience of divorce in the military, the emotional challenges that came with it, and how her family helped her through. She shares how these experiences led her to focus on mindfulness, resilience and wellbeing. Kate and Sarah explore practical techniques for managing emotions during divorce, reframing your mindset and finding calm during change. They also talk about common myths around co-parenting and how sharing personal experiences, both at work and in everyday life, can help build stronger connections. A summary of what we cover: - Navigating the practicalities of divorce in the military - Sarah’s go-to techniques for managing emotions and mindset - Why your child isn’t “broken” because of your divorce - How openness and authenticity can build stronger human connections **Sarah Furness and her work** Sarah is a Founder of [Well Be It](https://wellbeitcoach.com/), a coaching consultancy specialising in employee resilience and empowered leadership. She’s a keynote speaker, bestselling author and former helicopter pilot. After graduating from Cambridge University, Sarah followed her dream to become a combat helicopter pilot in the RAF. As a Squadron Leader she led on operational combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and she was the first female helicopter pilot to fly and lead UK Special Forces missions in Iraq. So she has a proven track record leading teams to victory in the most extreme conditions. As a qualified mindfulness coach and human factors facilitator Sarah combines her military expertise with proven cognitive techniques to expertly guide people on their own journey of discovery.  **More divorce resources** You can [learn more about Sarah Furness](https://sarahfurness.com/) on her website, you can [purchase her book _Fly Higher_](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fly-Higher-Train-your-strong/dp/1781337063) on Amazon and you can [find out more about her coaching services](https://wellbeitcoach.com/) on _Well Be It_ website. Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=raf). amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now:   You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 163 — In brief: What is a prenup? Published: 2025-11-05 · Duration: 11 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-what-is-a-prenup > This week, Kate is joined by Candice Bull, Divorce Specialist at amicable, to unpack what a prenup is and why you might need one. This week, Katye is joined by Candice Bull, Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/), to unpack what a prenup is and why you might need one. **Prenup 101** Kate and Candice talk through everything you need to know about prenuptial agreements - what they cover, how long they last and whether they’re automatically legally binding. They explore how to make sure a prenup is fair for both partners and why these agreements are not just for the wealthy. Candice also shares why more couples are choosing prenups today, how often they need to be updated and how to start this conversation with your partner. Here are some points covered in this episode: - What a prenup is and what it includes - When to update your prenup - How to keep things fair when one partner has more money - Why prenups are becoming more common among younger couples - Top tips for discussing a prenup together **Candice Bull from amicable** Candice is a Negotiation Divorce Specialist and part of the Negotiation Team at [amicable](https://amicable.io/). After qualifying as a family law solicitor in 2019, she gained invaluable experience in private family law practice. Passionate about supporting couples through separation, Candice is dedicated to empowering them to make informed decisions about their future and guiding them through constructive negotiations which are kind, collaborative and truly amicable. **More divorce resources** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Start your free trial here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=prenup). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now:  --- ## Episode 162 — What does an amicable divorce look like in practice? Published: 2025-10-29 · Duration: 47 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/amicable-divorce-in-practice > In this episode, Kate is joined by Susie Giles and Liz Harrington from Family Flow, and Anthony Syder from amicable, to explore what being truly amicable looks like when relationships end. In this episode, Kate is joined by Susie Giles and Liz Harrington from [Family Flow](https://www.familyflow.co.uk/), and Anthony Syder from [amicable](https://amicable.io/), to explore what being truly amicable looks like when relationships end. **Amicable divorce: expectation vs reality** Kate and her guests discuss how Family Flow supports women through separation with a compassionate, trauma-informed approach, and how amicable helps couples navigate divorce. Together, they dive into why an ‘amicable separation’ is often more of an aspiration than a reality, how things can shift from calm to conflict when solicitors and finances get involved, the common concerns women face when using joint divorce services and how to create a fairer balance around money. Anthony also shares what support couples can expect from amicable’s experts during negotiations, and we wrap up with practical tips for staying amicable - and redefining your relationship post-split. **Family Flow and amicable** Susie Giles is a trauma-informed coach specialising in separation, divorce and family wellbeing. ICF-trained and grounded in evidence-based approaches, she supports individuals - particularly mothers - in navigating the emotional and practical complexities of family breakdown with clarity, confidence and compassion. Her work is informed not just by professional expertise but by lived experience. Alongside her coaching, Susie offers specialist guidance on post-separation communication, co-parenting and keeping children emotionally safe through transition. Liz Harrington is a Somatic Trauma Therapist and coach with over 12 years’ experience supporting women through the complex aftermath of toxic relationships, coercive control and high-conflict divorces. Her work is deeply informed by both her professional expertise and her personal journey - including the power imbalances she has witnessed and lived through, pre- and post-divorce. She is currently finishing a bold, potentially controversial book that challenges the systemic issues within the divorce landscape - from how professionals handle family breakdown to the wider cultural forces at play. Anthony Syder is a Negotiation Specialist and the team lead for [amicable's](https://amicable.io/) financial consent order drafting team. His areas of interest include the voice of the child in separation and diverse families. Anthony was previously an accredited family mediator and also sat on the board of the Family Mediators Association. **More divorce resources:** You can [learn more about Family Flow](https://www.familyflow.co.uk/) on their website and you can [listen to the previous episode of The Divorce Podcast with Liz Harrington](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/emotional-freedom-technique-with-liz-harrington) on your favourite platform. Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created amicable space to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=amicable-divorce). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 161 — In brief: How schools can support children through family separation Published: 2025-10-22 · Duration: 17 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-how-schools-can-support-children-through-family-separation > This week, Kate is joined by James Hayhurst, founder of The Parents Promise, to discuss a new school initiative designed to help children cope with the impact of family separation. This week, Kate is joined by James Hayhurst, founder of [The Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/), to discuss a new school initiative designed to help children cope with the impact of family separation. ## How parental conflict impacts children at school James introduces The Parents Promise and its mission before he and Kate explore the statistics behind this education initiative. They discuss how parental conflict during separation can affect children’s wellbeing and performance at school. James also shares his _Five to Thrive_ steps that schools, teachers and parents can take to make a real difference. Here are some points covered in this episode: - What _The Parents Promise_ is and how it supports families - The impact of family separation on children’s school life - _Five to Thrive_ steps for teachers and parents - Free resources available to support teachers, parents and children ### James Hayhurst and The Parents Promise James Hayhurst is the founder of the Positive Parenting Alliance and creator of [The Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/). Having seen up close the multitude of issues in the family courts and the numbers of children and parents affected, James wanted to begin a new conversation about separation. In May 2021, after many conversations with like-minded people and organisations, the Parents Promise was launched. ### More divorce resources: You can learn more about James and his work on [The Parents Promise website](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/) and you can connect with him [on LinkedIn](https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jameshayhurst1). You can [learn more about the Education Initiative here](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/education-initiative) and you can [listen to our episode about the HR Initiative here](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/exploring-divorce-in-the-workplace-support-through-separation). We've created [amicable space](http://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=school) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](http://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=school). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 160 — Nesting in practice: how one family made co-parenting work Published: 2025-10-15 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/nesting-in-practice > In this episode, Kate is joined by Jonathan Fitter-Harding, a creative entrepreneur and proud dad of two, to hear his separation story and share some practical co-parenting insights. In this episode, Kate is joined by Jonathan Fitter-Harding, a creative entrepreneur and proud dad of two, to hear his separation story and share some practical co-parenting insights. **About the episode: ** Jonathan opens up about his separation and shares how well-meaning friends and family unknowingly made things more challenging. He and Kate dive into co-parenting, focusing on the ‘nesting’ arrangement and explore the practical day-to-day details of this approach. They also talk about the benefits of joint therapy and how it can help separated couples maintain a positive relationship for their children. Jonathan shares how therapy even supported them in navigating finances during the separation. Finally, he explains how he continues to co-run a business with his ex-partner and how their approach to separation has made this collaborative journey possible. **A summary of what we cover:** - Jonathan’s separation story - ‘Nesting’ co-parenting arrangement - Benefits of joint therapy for separated couples - Running a business with an ex-partner **About our guests:** Jonathan Fitter-Harding is a proud dad of two, a creative entrepreneur and one of the key people behind Pride Canterbury - the main LGBTQ+ event in the South East. He helped lead the way in bringing secure dog fields to Kent, runs a boutique hotel and juggles a property business too. After an amicable split from his husband, Jon has built a strong, respectful co-parenting setup that puts their kids first. His story is a great reminder that separation doesn’t have to mean conflict, it can lead to clarity, connection and even a well-earned glass of champagne now and then. **More resources:** You can get in touch with Jonathan’s counsellor, Jenny Blain, via her [website](https://www.jennyblaincounselling.com/). Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now:   We've created [amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=nesting) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=nesting). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 159 — In brief: Friendship after divorce - high-conflict edition Published: 2025-10-08 · Duration: 13 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-friendship-after-divorce-high-conflict > In this episode, Kate unpacks what it’s like to navigate shared friendships after a high-conflict split - and offers guidance for the friends caught in the middle. In this episode, Kate unpacks what it’s like to navigate shared friendships after a high-conflict split - and offers guidance for the friends caught in the middle. **About the episode:** Kate begins by exploring how high-conflict separations can disrupt friendships and social circles, often leaving ex-partners feeling sidelined or isolated. She then shares practical guidance for separated couples - from setting clear boundaries to allowing space to grieve the loss of old friendship dynamics. The episode wraps up with advice for friends who want to support both sides, including why it’s important to avoid acting as a go-between and how to check in privately in a way that feels safe and supportive. **How to help a friend through a high-conflict separation** If someone in your friend group is going through a separation, small gestures of care can make a big difference - especially if there is a lot of tension between them. Here are some simple ways to support both people: - Offer to listen without providing solutions - Make sure they feel safe and cared for - Share compassion, but avoid taking sides or being the go-between - If certain boundaries are set, do your best to honour them (where practically possible) - Accept that your friendship with both of them (and the wider group) could change - Try to avoid being pulled into gossip or rumours - Remember to prioritise your wellbeing You can find out more from our [guide to helping a friend or family member](https://amicable.io/how-to-help-a-friend-or-family-member-going-through-a-separation) through separation. **More resources:** The studies mentioned in this episode are Amato (2000), Afifi et al. (2015) and Symoens et al. (2013). Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). They might be the topic of our next podcast! We've created [amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=conflict_friend) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=conflict_friend). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now:  --- ## Episode 158 — How hidden fear can impact your divorce Published: 2025-10-01 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-fear-impacts-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Annmarie Chereso, a relationship coach and author, to discuss the role of fear in divorce and separation - and what you can do about it. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Annmarie Chereso](https://annmariechereso.me/), a relationship coach and author, to discuss the role of fear in divorce and separation - and what you can do about it. **About the episode: ** Annmarie starts by sharing her own story of divorce. Kate and her then talk about the role of fear and uncertainty and how they might hinder the separation process. Annmarie also gives some tips on how to talk to yourself in those difficult moments and how to accept the contradictory nature of your present situation. They move on to talk about the importance of taking responsibility for your own actions in the divorce - to stop the blame game and move to a more amicable outcome. They also discuss the importance of supporting each other’s growth and evolution, even if it might result in the relationship ending. Annmarie shares how fear can create drama in relationships ending and, more importantly, how to stop that from happening. She finishes off by discussing how all these principles apply in keeping peace and harmony in her large blended family of nine.  **A summary of what we cover:** - Annmarie’s personal divorce story - How fear makes separation harder and creates drama - Taking responsibility to reduce blame in divorce - Ways to overcome fear and reduce unnecessary conflict - Building peace in a large blended family **About our guests:** [Annmarie Chereso](https://annmariechereso.me/) is a conscious relationship coach, speaker and author of the #1 International Best Seller Anthology, [The Perfectly Imperfect Family](https://annmariechereso.me/books/). She is devoted to helping women lead empowered, fulfilling lives from the inside out. With over two decades of experience, she blends deep wisdom with practical tools to help women break generational patterns, navigate conflict with clarity and reconnect with their true selves. Her mission is to help women let go of conditioned beliefs, embody unconditional love and step into their full potential. Living her teachings, Annmarie resides in Chicago with her husband, where they joyfully navigate life with their beautifully blended family of nine - a living testament to her work in cultivating harmony and conscious connection. **More resources:** You can learn more about Annmarie and get in touch with her on [her website](https://annmariechereso.me/). Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created [amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=fear) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=fear). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 157 — In brief: Friendships after divorce - amicable edition Published: 2025-09-24 · Duration: 9 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-friendships-after-divorce-amicable-edition > In this mini-episode, Kate shares practical tips on how to navigate shared friend groups after an amicable separation. She also offers advice for friends of separating couples. In this mini-episode, Kate shares practical tips on how to navigate shared friend groups after an amicable separation. She also offers advice for friends of separating couples. This episode focuses on situations where things end on good terms - guidance for higher-conflict separations will be covered in an upcoming episode. **About the episode:** Kate begins with tips for separated couples, from discussing social plans in advance to the importance of not oversharing personal details. She finishes the episode by sharing advice for friends who want to support both people - from handling group invitations sensitively to avoiding the trap of over-praising the couple’s maturity. **How to help a friend through separation** If someone in your friend group is going through a separation, small gestures of care can make a big difference. Here are some simple ways to support them both: - Offer to listen without providing solutions - Make sure they feel safe and cared for - Share compassion, not comparisons to your own situations or too much advice - Offer practical help, like meals or pet care - Point them towards trusted resources  You can find out more from our [guide to helping a friend or family member](https://amicable.io/how-to-help-a-friend-or-family-member-going-through-a-separation) through separation. **More resources:** Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). They might be the topic of our next podcast! We've created [amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=amicable_friend) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=amicable_friend). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.   amicable’s YouTube channel is full of practical guidance on separation, divorce and co-parenting, explained in a clear and supportive way. From expert tips to interviews, it’s a helpful place to find answers and feel more confident about what comes next. Subscribe now: [amicable divorce](https://www.youtube.com/@amicable_world) --- ## Episode 156 — Non-court dispute resolution (NCDR) explained Published: 2025-09-17 · Duration: 43 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/ncdr-explained > In this episode, Kate Daly is joined by Stephen Wildblood, King’s Counsel and a playwright, to discuss non-court dispute resolution (NCDR). In this episode, Kate Daly is joined by Stephen Wildblood, King’s Counsel and a playwright, to discuss non-court dispute resolution (NCDR). **About the episode: ** Kate and Stephen start by unpacking what NCDR (non-court dispute resolution) is, the main types available and the key benefits of choosing this route over going to court to finalise a divorce. From there, they explore why NCDR isn’t as widely considered as it could be, and discuss simple ways to raise its profile with the public. Stephen then shares how the plays he writes are helping to shine a light on NCDR - and why this creative approach is such an effective way to spread awareness. Finally, we look ahead, imagining other ways to reach a wider audience and ensure NCDR becomes the go-to choice for untying the knot. A summary of what they cover: - Main types of NCDR and their key benefits - Why NCDR isn’t as widely considered as it could be during divorce - Unorthodox ways to make NCDR people’s first choice when separating **About our guests:** Stephen Wildblood KC was the Designated Family Judge for the Bristol area for ten years before stepping down in November 2023. He continues to sit as a Judge, part-time, in the Family and High Courts. He practised as a Family barrister for 27 years – the last eight and a half as a KC. His practice was divided equally between children and financial remedy cases.  Stephen has written for over 20 legal textbooks and regularly lectures on all aspects of family law. He and Dr Freda Gardner (a consultant clinical psychologist) have set up a business which helps couples resolve family issues relating to money and children without litigation. They are both trained mediators.  Stephen is a qualified Family arbitrator in relation to children and financial issues. He has joined 3 PB barristers' chambers as an associate member offering private financial hearings, early neutral evaluation and arbitration. You’ll learn more about this in the podcast episode. He is a man of many talents and is a playwright and author too. He believes that going to court should be a last resort in divorce and children cases. **More resources:** You can learn more about Stephen and get in touch with him through [Gardner Wildblood LLP](https://www.gardnerwildblood.com/) or [3 Paper Buildings](https://www.3pb.co.uk/). Got a question on divorce, separation or co-parenting you’d like us to cover? Share your thoughts with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk) or [through direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/). We've created [amicable space](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=ncdr) to give you more personalised support. Become a member of amicable space for bonus podcast episodes, exclusive webinars, articles and an interactive community. You can share your questions and get expert advice from amicable specialists. [Learn more and sign up here](https://amicable.space/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=ncdr). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 155 — In brief: How to return to work after divorce Published: 2025-09-10 · Duration: 25 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-return-to-work-after-divorce > This week, Kate is joined by Heather Black, the founder and CEO of Supermums, who shares her expertise as a training provider along with actionable tips for getting back into the workforce post-divorce. This week, Kate is joined by Heather Black, the founder and CEO of [Supermums](https://supermums.org/), who shares her expertise as a training provider along with actionable tips for getting back into the workforce post-divorce. Separation often brings about change - and for many women, that includes transitioning to a new role or returning to work after a period of time away, such as after being a stay-at-home parent.  Kate and Heather explore the practical and emotional sides of re-entering the workforce, with plenty of support along the way. If you’re considering going back into the office after a divorce, whether this is for your own financial independence or a fresh challenge, this episode will be helpful for you. **About the episode:** Heather starts off by describing the specifics of coming back to work after divorce and how Supermums can help you build the skills and confidence to make this career step.  Heather and Kate discuss internal barriers that may prevent you from pursuing your career goals and some tools to overcome them. They finish off with some practical job search tips and even some ideas of how your ex-partner can support you in returning to work.  Here are some points covered in this episode to help you return to work smoothly after your divorce: - Tools to change your mindset and land the job that’s right for you - Tips to make you stand out from the crowd of applicants - How Supermums can support you **More resources:** You can learn more about Heather and her work at Supermums on [their website](https://supermums.org/). You can also learn more about a Salesforce career through [these helpful resources](https://supermums.org/what-is-a-salesforce-career/). [Join amicable space](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=mini-work) for bonus episodes, expert webinars and a supportive community [here](https://amicable.space/membership?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=description&utm_campaign=mini-work). We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might be the topic of our next podcast! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 154 — Why divorce isn’t a failure with Elizabeth Day Published: 2025-09-03 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/elizabeth-day-divorce-is-not-a-failure > In this episode, Kate is joined by Elizabeth Day, an award-winning author, acclaimed podcaster and broadcaster, for a candid conversation about relationships, heartbreaks and friendships. In this episode, Kate is joined by Elizabeth Day, an award-winning author, acclaimed podcaster and broadcaster, for a candid conversation about relationships, heartbreaks and friendships.  ## About the episode: Elizabeth starts by opening up about her personal experience of relationships and separations, and what she learnt about herself through them. Kate and Elizabeth go on to explore why divorce isn’t a failure, the role your friendships play in your romantic relationships and tips on what to look out for in future partners. We finish off with Elizabeth sharing some incredible tips for those going through divorce or separation. Tune in so you don’t miss them!  If you’re navigating separation, divorce, or even just the idea of starting again, this is the perfect episode for you. It’s thought-provoking, honest, and packed with takeaways you can use right now. You might even leave feeling a little bit lighter and more positive about your previous relationships (and the potential for future love). ## About our guests: **Elizabeth Day** is an award-winning author, acclaimed podcaster, and broadcaster known for her honest and compassionate explorations of modern life, relationships, and failure. Her latest book, [One Of Us](https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-Us-compulsive-bestselling-Elizabeth-ebook/dp/B0DWXKMF1M) is her tenth, following the success of her previous nonfiction title, [Friendaholic: Confessions of a Friendship Addict](https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/friendaholic-confessions-of-a-friendship-addict-elizabeth-day?variant=40310468870222), which became an instant Sunday Times Number One bestseller. Her novels—including the bestsellers [Magpie](https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/magpie-elizabeth-day?variant=39566185332814) and [The Party](https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/the-party-elizabeth-day?variant=32556805652558)—have been praised for their psychological insight and social commentary. Elizabeth is the recipient of a Betty Trask Award and a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature. She is also the creator and host of the chart-topping podcast [How To Fail](https://www.sonymusic.co.uk/podcast/how-to-fail-with-elizabeth-day/#:~:text=How%20To%20Fail%20with%20Elizabeth%20Day%20is%20a%20podcast%20that,to%20grow%20and%20succeed%2C%20better.), where she interviews public figures about the lessons they’ve learned from setbacks. Through her production company, [Daylight Productions](https://www.daylightproductions.co.uk/), she works to amplify female and underrepresented voices in podcasting. Elizabeth has written and spoken candidly about her personal journey, including the emotional challenges of infertility, experiences she has shared in an effort to break the silence and stigma around the subject. She has also explored the evolution of her romantic life, including the end of her first marriage and the self-redefinition that followed. After years of growth and reflection, she found lasting love with entrepreneur Justin Basini, whom she married in 2021. The couple live in South West London with their much-loved ginger cat. Her openness about vulnerability, resilience, and human connection continues to resonate with readers and listeners around the world. ## More resources Loved this episode? You can listen to Elizabeth Day’s podcast [How to fail](https://www.sonymusic.co.uk/podcast/how-to-fail-with-elizabeth-day/#:~:text=How%20To%20Fail%20with%20Elizabeth%20Day%20is%20a%20podcast%20that,to%20grow%20and%20succeed%2C%20better.) on your favourite platform, pre-order her latest book [One of Us](https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/one-of-us-elizabeth-day?variant=55147035099515), and [follow her on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/elizabday/?hl=en-gb)!  You can get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk. They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 153 — In brief: Moving on when your ex won’t explain why Published: 2025-08-27 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-moving-on-when-your-ex-wont-explain-why > In this mini-episode, Kate talks about something many people experience but rarely talk about openly: when your ex ends the relationship or marriage without giving you a real reason why. In this mini-episode, Kate talks about something many people experience but rarely talk about openly: when your ex ends the relationship or marriage without giving you a real reason why. This might bring up a lot of difficult feelings, and without closure, it may feel like it’s impossible for you to move on with your divorce.  **About the episode:** Kate starts off by exploring why your ex-partner might want to separate but can’t give you a reason why. She then explains why moving on is so important, even though it seems nearly impossible at the beginning. Kate finishes by sharing some actionable tips for dealing with the lack of closure, from acknowledging your feelings to getting the support you need. Here are some of the points covered in this episode to help on your divorce journey: - Why your partner wants a divorce but can’t give you a real reason - Why it’s important to move on - Tips for getting closure that your ex-partner can’t provide  **More resources:** We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might be the topic of our next podcast! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 152 — Building businesses with heart: when entrepreneurship meets emotional change Published: 2025-08-20 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/entrepreneurship-meets-emotional-change > In this World Entrepreneur Day exclusive episode, Kate is joined by Pip Wilson, CEO and Co-founder of amicable, and Ruth Handcock, CEO of Octopus Money, to explore what happens when entrepreneurship meets emotional change — and how building businesses around separation, money and human kindness can transform lives. In this World Entrepreneur Day exclusive episode, Kate is joined by Pip Wilson, CEO and Co-founder of [amicable](https://amicable.io/), and Ruth Handcock, CEO of [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-entrereneurship&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), to explore what happens when entrepreneurship meets emotional change — and how building businesses around separation, money and human kindness can transform lives.  ** About the episode: ** Pip starts by sharing what sparked the idea to co-found amicable and change the way people divorce. We’ll hear why Ruth and [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-entrereneurship&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) chose to back amicable and how this aligned with Octopus’ goals. Pip, Kate and Ruth all talk about how values like kindness, resilience and emotional intelligence shape meaningful companies, and dig into the link between money and separation, the myths that hold people back and what it really takes to disrupt an industry. Kate, Ruth and Pip finish with practical and emotional tips for anyone going through a separation — and advice for budding entrepreneurs ready to build something that matters. **A summary of what we cover:** - Pip’s reasons for starting amicable - Why Ruth and Octopus Money backed amicable - How human values can help companies disrupt industries - The often-missed connection between finances and separation **About our guests:** Pip Wilson is the Co-founder and CEO of [amicable](https://amicable.io/), where she leads the charge in transforming the divorce and separation process. A highly successful tech entrepreneur, director and start-up mentor, Pip takes overall responsibility for driving amicable forward, including defining its innovative tech strategy to automate and improve the end-to-end journey, making amicable the kindest and best way to divorce or separate. Her entrepreneurial journey includes co-founding Bluefin Solutions, an SAP consultancy, which she successfully exited to Mindtree in 2015. Beyond amicable, Pip is a proactive angel investor, actively supporting and promoting female-led businesses. She has also contributed significantly to philanthropy, having served as a trustee for multiple charities including as Deputy Chair of the RSA.   Ruth Handcock is the CEO of [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-entrereneurship&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), a money advice brand for everyone. She believes everyone should be able to get help with their money, regardless of how much they earn or are able to invest and was awarded an OBE for services to financial services and investments in 2025. Ruth has been part of the Octopus Group since 2018. Before Octopus Money, she was CEO of Octopus Investments, an asset manager with £13bn under management. Ruth's career has spanned roles that have included zoology, strategic consultancy, finance director for Barcardi’s Martini & Cognac portfolios, founding employee of a challenger bank and working in Sierra Leone for the Ministry of Trade. Ruth currently serves as a non-executive director of Aldermore Bank. As a state-school educated kid from Lincolnshire, Ruth is passionate about social mobility. She was Governor at Bolingbroke Academy, a non-selective state secondary school for 6 years.  **More resources:** Learn more about [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-entrereneurship&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) and book a free starter session with a money coach on [their website](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-entrereneurship&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa).  You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. [Book a free 15-minute consultation](https://meetings.amicable.io/book-a-15-minute-consultation) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 151 — In brief: Co-parenting neurodiverse children after divorce Published: 2025-08-13 · Duration: 21 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-co-parent-neurodiverse-children-after-divorce > This week, Kate is joined by Jo Thurston from Action for Children's Parent Talk to discuss co-parenting children with neurodiversity after divorce. This week, Kate is joined by Jo Thurston from [Action for Children's Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) to discuss co-parenting children with neurodiversity after divorce. Jo shares some tools and tips that can make the whole process smoother, helping your children feel included and making sure you and your co-parent are on the same page. Parenting a neurodiverse child means that both parents should focus on effective communication, consistency and understanding to help their child thrive. **About the episode:** Jo starts by defining neurodiversity and giving a quick overview of some of the most common neurodivergent profiles, for example ADHD, autism, dyslexia and dyspraxia. Kate and Jo move on to discuss the nuances of co-parenting neurodiverse kids and how to keep your communication with an ex-partner child-focused. They finish off with some actionable tips to help you in the process. Here are some of the points they cover in this episode to help on your co-parenting journey: - The importance of consistency when co-parenting - How to talk to your children about divorce - How to smooth the transition between two homes after separation or divorce - Tips for communicating with your ex-partner, with insights from Jo Thurston from [Action for Children’s Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) **About our guest:** Jo is a co-ordinator at [Action for Children’s Parent Talk service](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/), which offers free online advice for parents and carers of children aged 0-19. The service also supports families with disabled and neurodivergent young people up to age 25. Its confidential 1:1 live chat service connects parents and carers directly to an experienced parenting coach for judgement-free practical advice and emotional support, while its online advice content answers to some of the most common parenting questions. Jo first joined Action for Children in 2018 as a Family Support Worker in a Children’s Centre. She has a background working in schools and pastoral care, with a particular interest in supporting families impacted by SEND._ _ **More resources:** Visit [Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) to read parenting advice or to chat online with a parenting coach. You can also learn more about the charity on [Action for Children's website](https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/).  To help your children prepare for handovers, you can use [Mum’s House Dad’s House](https://www.elsa-support.co.uk/resources/mums-house-dads-house-item-295/) or [My Home](https://www.elsa-support.co.uk/my-home/) tools from [Elsa Support](https://www.elsa-support.co.uk/).  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might be the topic of our next podcast! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 150 — Divorce as allies: communication tips for successful co-parenting Published: 2025-08-06 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/divorce-as-allies > In this episode, Kate is joined by Allison O’Brien, a communication and leadership development consultant, to discuss techniques for communicating with an ex-partner or co-parent and why some people might need more time to get on board with the idea of an amicable divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Allison O’Brien](https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-o-brien1), a communication and leadership development consultant, to discuss techniques for communicating with an ex-partner or co-parent and why some people might need more time to get on board with the idea of an amicable divorce.  **About the episode: ** Allison starts off by sharing the story of her parents' separation, and then her own experience with a relationship breakdown. She also explains how her professional skills helped her through her divorce and in establishing a positive co-parenting relationship. Kate and Allison go on to discuss the pushback that Allison received after her TED Talk "How to divorce as allies, not enemies" was released and what problems we’re still facing as a society that make the concept of an amicable, collaborative divorce so hard to accept. Allison finishes off with some expert tips on communicating with an ex-partner to remain civil and co-parent successfully. **A summary of what we cover:** - Allison O’Brien’s personal stories about separation - How professional skills can help improve communication skills - Overcoming negative perceptions of amicable separations - Top tips for ex-partner and co-parent collaboration **About our guest:** [Allison O’Brien](https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-o-brien1) is a communication and leadership development consultant who helps individuals and companies transform how they work through culture, communication and the science of listening. Known for embracing risk and change, her expertise lies in uncovering the insights needed to improve conversations, manage emotions and build genuine connection. When her marriage of 15 years was ending, she committed to using the same principles she teaches in her work to navigate her divorce without lawyers or mediators involved. As a result, she maintains a solid friendship and collaborative co-parenting relationship with her former spouse. All of which she shares in her recent [TED.com](https://www.ted.com/talks/allison_o_brien_how_to_divorce_as_allies_not_enemies) talk. For O’Brien, the power of listening is the key to changing the way people live, love and lead. **More resources:** [Get in touch](https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-o-brien1) with Allison on LinkedIn, and you can watch her inspiring TED Talk "How to divorce as allies, not enemies" [here](https://www.ted.com/talks/allison_o_brien_how_to_divorce_as_allies_not_enemies). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 149 — In brief: Making summer holidays work as a single parent Published: 2025-07-30 · Duration: 19 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief:-making-summer-holidays-work-as-a-single-parent > This week, Kate is joined by Jo Thurston from Parent Talk to discuss why summer holidays can be so tricky for single parents and share some simple tips for making them more manageable and fun. This week, Kate is joined by Jo Thurston from [Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) to discuss why summer holidays can be so tricky for single parents and share some simple tips for making them more manageable and fun. Without the school routine and longer days in the sun, it’s an important time to create new memories and enjoy new activities with your children. However, summer as a single parent can be challenging when you’re doing all of this solo. It might involve more schedules, additional childcare and juggling high expectations.  **About the episode:** Kate and Jo start by explaining why summer holidays can be challenging for single parents, and when’s a good time to start planning them. There are also some tips on how not to over-plan!  Here are some of the points they cover in this episode to help single parents this summer: - How to navigate holiday costs - Where you can look for affordable activities to fit your budget and available time - Communication tips with your co-parent - Staying flexible and willing to adjust your schedule - Why involving your children in holiday planning could be a good idea **About our guest:** Jo is a co-ordinator at [Action for Children’s Parent Talk service](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/), which offers free online advice for parents and carers of children aged 0-19, or up to 25 where a young person has special educational needs. Its confidential 1:1 live chat service connects parents and carers directly to an experienced parenting coach for judgement-free practical advice and emotional support, while its online articles answer some of the most common parenting questions.  Jo first joined Action for Children in 2018 as a Family Support worker in a Children’s Centre. She has a background working in schools and pastoral care and has a particular interest in supporting families impacted by SEND._ _ **More resources:** You can learn more about Action For Children and how they can help you on [their website](https://www.actionforchildren.org.uk/). For parenting advice, visit [Parent Talk](https://parents.actionforchildren.org.uk/) to explore their resources and have a one-to-one chat with a parenting coach.  You can also book a 90-minute [Separating With Children session](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service) with amicable to create a parenting plan for the summer holidays.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  **#Coparenting** --- ## Episode 148 — All the things I wish I knew about money before I got divorced Published: 2025-07-23 · Duration: 44 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/things-i-wish-i-knew-about-money-before-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Donald Stewart, Head of Training and Competence at Octopus Money, to discuss financial arrangements during and after divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by Donald Stewart, Head of Training and Competence at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), to discuss financial arrangements during and after divorce. **About the episode: ** Kate and Donald start by exploring why there are so many emotions attached to money during divorce, the importance of seeking financial advice early, and how to build financial confidence post-divorce. Many separating couples find it difficult to plan for their independent futures, and considering the practicalities, lifestyle adjustments and co-parenting arrangements can make financial discussions even more triggering. Donald explains the importance of understanding your assets, including pensions, which often get overlooked - but are key to your long-term stability. He finishes by explaining what a 'money coach' is and how they can help you prepare and plan for life post-divorce. You'll finish this episode feeling more confident in your finances, wherever you are in the separation process. **About our guest:** Donald Stewart is the Head of Training and Competence at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) and looks after the skills, knowledge and conduct for the coaches and advisers to help them deliver great outcomes for customers. Prior to joining Octopus Money, he spent 15 years in retail banking in various roles including management, financial advice and business banking and has always had a passion for helping people to feel empowered with money and personal finances.  **Want more financial tips from an [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) expert? ** Senior Paraplanner at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) Ben Atherton shared five practical money-saving tips to help make you and your family more financially secure. Get the highlights in our [blog post](https://amicable.io/money-tips-divorce-octopus-money) or [listen to the full podcast episode](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-5-tips-for-financial-stability). **More resources:** Get help with your finances wherever you are in the divorce journey with [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa). You can book your free starter session with an Octopus expert [here](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-divorce&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa). Get in touch with Donald Stewart [on LinkedIn](https://uk.linkedin.com/in/donaldmartinstewart) or you can contact him via email - [donald.stewart@octopusmoney.com](mailto:donald.stewart@octopusmoney.com)  Use [this gov.uk service](https://www.gov.uk/find-pension-contact-details) to track your pensions, and for more information about what you might be entitled to post-divorce, [visit Citizens Advice Bureau](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/) You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 147 — In brief: You’re ready for divorce - but they’re not Published: 2025-07-16 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-kate-daly-get-your-ex-on-board > In this mini-episode, Kate shares practical, compassionate tips on how to start the divorce process when your ex-partner isn’t quite on the same page yet — and how to choose a legal service that works for both of you. In this mini-episode, Kate shares practical, compassionate tips on how to start the divorce process when your ex-partner isn’t quite on the same page yet — and how to choose a legal service that works for both of you. This episode will be helpful for anyone who has decided their relationship has come to an end, and would like to share the news with their ex-partner in a kinder way. If you want to separate amicably, try following a few of our tips for a smoother, kinder transition to ending your marriage. **About the episode:** Kate starts by explaining the emotional journey of divorce. She offers guidance on how to approach initial conversations with your ex-partner, including making sure that they know you want a divorce, and how to introduce the idea of using a service like amicable. Kate also explores why amicable is different to the two-lawyer (typically combative) approach, and why a couples service can reduce stress, save money and time when you decide to split. This episode is all about meeting your ex where they are, reducing friction, and laying the groundwork for a respectful and cooperative split. **More resources:** We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 146 — Dating post-divorce: apps, expectations and flirting tips with Cate Mackenzie Published: 2025-07-09 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/dating-post-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Cate Mackenzie, a Sex and Relationship Therapist, to discuss dating post-divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Cate Mackenzie](https://catemackenzie.com/), a Sex and Relationship Therapist, to discuss dating post-divorce. Tune in for an amazing mix of actionable tips, real-life stories and even a mini-coaching session to get you started. This episode is fantastic if you want to build up your confidence after a relationship breakdown. **About the episode:** Kate and Cate start by exploring why dating is so difficult after divorce and separation. They then talk about why your friends can be a great help in making dating less daunting and scary and how to make dating apps work for you. Cate also explains how to date when you might be feeling emotionally vulnerable and questioning your dating readiness. Cate encourages checking in with yourself and managing expectations when you get ready for your first dates post-divorce. They even speculate on how to make our schedules work for our love life and whether it’s possible to have a ‘Wednesday-only’ relationship. Cate analyses different flirting techniques and how to uncover and lean into your natural style, which might be something you least expect … They finish the podcast by sharing some key tips on how not to get overly attached too quickly and essential online safety. Just a heads-up that this episode contains sexual references, so you might want to listen out of earshot of any children. **About our guest:** [Cate Mackenzie](https://catemackenzie.com/) is a Sex and Relationship Therapist specialising in attachment and self-expression. She has been the Dating Coach on Channel 4’s “The Undateables”, Flirting Coach for The Jeremy Vine Show on Channel 5 and Sex Therapist on Channel 4’s Kinky Britain. She is regularly in the press, has two podcasts [“Love, pleasure and joy”](https://catemackenzie.com/podcast/) and “[Cate Mackenzie’s meditations](https://catemackenzie.com/meditations/)” and runs workshops on flirting, dating, attachment and being open to love again after challenging experiences.  **More resources:** You can learn more about Cate Mackenzie on [her website](https://catemackenzie.com/) and on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/catemackenzielovecoach/). For more tips on dating and relationships, check out Cate’s podcast [“Love, pleasure and joy”](https://catemackenzie.com/podcast/). You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 145 — In brief: What penguins can teach you about child-centred handovers Published: 2025-07-02 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-child-centred-handovers > This week Kate is joined by Una Archer, founder of Help Your Child Thrive, to discuss handovers, why parents and even children might find them difficult and what you can do to make them easier. This week Kate is joined by [Una Archer](https://www.helpyourchildthrive.co.uk/), founder of Help Your Child Thrive, to discuss handovers, why parents and even children might find them difficult and what you can do to make them easier. Una shares her insights about how to focus on yourself and effectively prepare your mindset for positive handovers. _TW: This episode mentions domestic violence, which may be upsetting for some listeners. If you need support, contact: _ - [Refuge](https://refuge.org.uk/) - [Men's Advice Line](https://mensadviceline.org.uk/) **About the episode:** Kate and Una start off by discussing why handovers are often so emotionally-charged for everyone involved. Una then shares some tips on how to make them just a little bit easier. Learn how to manage your nervous system, reframe the role of handovers and stay child-centred throughout those interactions.  **About our guest:** [Una Archer](https://www.helpyourchildthrive.co.uk/) provides attachment and trauma-informed parenting support for separated parents. With a background in educational psychology and her own experience of navigating separation, Una's approach places children's emotional security at the heart of every parenting decision. Over the past 10 years, she has worked with hundreds of separated parents, helping them with challenges ranging from managing the logistics of moving between two homes to redefining and reinventing the kind of parent they want to be. Her work supports parents in building deeper connection, confidence, and resilience — both for themselves and their children **More resources:** You can learn more about Una and how she can help your child thrive on [her website](https://www.helpyourchildthrive.co.uk/). You can also register for her on-demand webinar, exploring emotional security for separated parents, [here](https://mailchi.mp/a4c880984173/wu2kjlxh5v) We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 144 — Divorce is not a magic bullet: separation advice from a marital therapist, Andrew G. Marshall Published: 2025-06-25 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/divorce-is-not-a-magic-bullet > In this episode, Kate is joined by Andrew G Marshall, a therapist and writer, to discuss the most common mistakes to avoid when separating. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Andrew G Marshall](http://www.andrewgmarshall.com/), a therapist and writer, to discuss the most common mistakes to avoid when separating. ** About the episode: ** Kate and Andrew begin the episode by looking at Andrew’s motivations for becoming a therapist, following his personal experience of family members’ divorce as a child. Andrew explains the importance of communication both during a relationship and after it ends. They role-play a typical scenario separating couples find themselves in, and how to de-escalate emotionally-charged conversations. Andrew gives some great tips on creating distance so you can choose to respond and not react. Kate and he explore common mistakes people make when separating, including rushing the ending, seeing divorce as the magic bullet and ‘switching off’ or emotionally ‘checking out’ pre-separation. They end by talking about [Andrew’s upcoming retreat](https://andrewgmarshall.com/mens-retreat/) and who it can help. This is a fantastic episode, whether you’re in the midst of a separation or want to improve the health of your relationship by learning new communication skills. **About our guest:** [Andrew G Marshall](http://www.andrewgmarshall.com/) is a marital therapist with 40 years of experience helping couples make better relationships (or if they separate, to be good co-parents). He originally trained with RELATE, the UK's largest counselling charity, but now leads a team of therapists in private practice. He is the author of twenty-plus books which have been translated into over twenty languages - including the international bestseller ['I love you but I'm not in love with you'](https://andrewgmarshall.com/books/i-love-you-but-im-not-in-love-with-you-seven-steps-to-saving-your-relationship/). He is the host of the award-nominated podcast ['The Meaningful Life with Andrew G Marshall'](https://andrewgmarshall.com/podcasts/) and this autumn will lead a [retreat near Berlin](https://andrewgmarshall.com/mens-retreat/) for men seeking to 'Reconnect with Yourself'.  **More resources:** You can learn more about Andrew G Marshall on [his website](http://www.andrewgmarshall.com/). There, you can register to attend his [upcoming retreat for men](https://andrewgmarshall.com/mens-retreat/), listen to his [award-nominated podcast](https://andrewgmarshall.com/podcasts/) and even access his [video course](https://andrewgmarshall.com/my-best-relationship-tools/) to learn about Andrew’s best relationship tools.  You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 143 — In brief: Five tips to build financial stability with Octopus Money Published: 2025-06-18 · Duration: 22 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief:-five-tips-to-build-financial-stability-with-octopus-money > In this episode, Kate is joined by Ben Atherton, a financial planning expert from Octopus Money, to share his top five money-saving tips post-divorce or separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by Ben Atherton, a financial planning expert from [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-ben-atherton&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa), to share his top five money-saving tips post-divorce or separation. For many couples, one person might have handled more of the financial planning, and the other might feel unsure about where to start - particularly around securing their financial futures and setting achievable goals for their new priorities. No matter what journey you’re on, Ben’s tips will help build your financial literacy.  **About the episode:** Budgeting might seem like the last thing you want to be doing when emotions are running high – but a little thought and planning now can be a big help in the long term. With that in mind, Ben shares his top five tips on how to plan for future finances during in this challenging period. Tune in to learn how to redefine your relationship with money and get some practical tools for financial management. **About our guest:** Ben Atherton is a Senior Paraplanner within the Advice Team at [Octopus Money](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-ben-atherton&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa) and his role is to look at the current financial situation of our clients, including any pensions, savings or investments which they might have and review them to establish if they are ‘fit for purpose’ i.e. are they helping them reach their financial goals and objectives. Ben has worked for Octopus Money since April 2024 but have been helping people with their finances since 2017, having worked for a small independent firm and a larger advice practice in the past.  **More resources:** You can learn more about financial planning on [Octopus Money website](https://octopusmoney.com/amicable?utm_source=Amicable&utm_medium=Podcast&utm_campaign=AmicableArticles&utm_content=podcast-ben-atherton&utm_term=42fe00b7-bf62-4ef3-8d0f-80eece5db1aa). For help with updating your will, you can reach out to [Octopus Legacy](https://octopuslegacy.com/). You can learn more about the benefits you might be entitled to at [Turn2us](https://www.turn2us.org.uk/), and for help with tracking your childcare expenses, you can download [amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app). Finally, you can [read our post-divorce checklist here](https://amicable.io/post-divorce-checklist). We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 142 — Recipe for success: chef’s tips for moving on after divorce Published: 2025-06-11 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/chef-s-tips-for-moving-on-after-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Christopher Gillard, chef and writer, to discuss how cooking can help rebuild your life post-divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Christopher Gillard](https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgillardcreativestrategy/), chef and writer, to discuss how cooking can help rebuild your life post-divorce. ** About the episode: ** The episode starts with Chris opening up about his separation story and the unexpected discoveries like pet-sitting and newfound love for cooking that inspired him to write his book ‘The Divorced Man's Kitchen Survival Guide’. He also explains how visiting different kitchens led him to formulate a ‘recipe’ of essential tools & ingredients that everyone needs to cook up a fresh start post-divorce. Kate and Chris discuss why his self-care book and practical guidance are particularly important for men, and how nutritious cooking can help you get through a tough time and come out better than ever. They finish off by giving some actionable tips on how to improve your cooking habits, like planning smarter food shops and choosing to embrace imperfection when things don’t go as planned. **About our guest:** [Christopher H Gillard](https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgillardcreativestrategy/) is a qualified chef, professional writer, photographic artist, filmmaker and a tech entrepreneur with over two decades experience in communications and innovative technology development. He also happens to be a divorcee who suddenly had to rebuild his life from the ground up in 2019 - no job, no money, no home and two little girls to look after. Chris’s background as a professional chef combined with over 20 years in creative communications and tech innovation provided him with crucial skills and experience needed to successfully navigate the hardest period of his life. It led him to his accidental recipe for renewal and the subsequent creation of his book. In [The Divorced Man's Kitchen Survival Guide](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Divorced-Mans-Kitchen-Survival-Guide/dp/1763803309?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE), Chris is sharing his story and learnings in the hope of helping others, everywhere. **More resources:** You can [get in touch with Chris on LinkedIn](https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgillardcreativestrategy/) and you can buy his book The Divorced Man's Kitchen Survival Guide_ _[on Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Divorced-Mans-Kitchen-Survival-Guide/dp/1763803309?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE) You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk . They might just be the topic of a future episode! --- ## Episode 141 — In brief: Why we cheat - three main reasons Published: 2025-06-04 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-why-we-cheat > In this episode, Kate wanted to delve deeper into another common challenge when it comes to sex and relationships – infidelity. What is it, why does it happen, and what can we do afterwards? In the previous episode of The Divorce Podcast, Kate spoke to [Cate Campbell](https://www.catecampbell-psychonatter.com/) about [navigating intimacy when living together post-separation](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/living-together-after-separation-intimacy-boundaries-break-up-sex). In this episode, Kate wanted to delve deeper into another common challenge when it comes to sex and relationships – infidelity. What is it, why does it happen, and what can we do afterwards?  **About the episode:** Kate begins by explaining what ‘infidelity’ is and why there is no clear definition for it. She also shares some fascinating statistics on how often adultery causes marriages to end and gives us three main reasons as to why that happens. She finishes off with some advice for forgiveness, moving on and getting closure if the infidelity has occurred.  Please be aware that this episode contains sexual references, so you might want to listen out of earshot of any children. **More resources:** We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 140 — Living together after separation: intimacy, boundaries and break-up sex Published: 2025-05-28 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/living-together-after-separation-intimacy-boundaries-break-up-sex > In this episode, I am joined by an award-winning author, Cate Campbell, to discuss intimacy, whether trial separations are a good idea, and boundaries while living together post-separation. In this episode, I am joined by an award-winning author,[ Cate Campbell](https://www.catecampbell-psychonatter.com/), to discuss intimacy, whether trial separations are a good idea, and boundaries while living together post-separation.  **About the episode:** Kate and Cate begin by discussing what intimacy might look like for ex-partners, especially for those who have separated but are still living together. We also explore how boundaries might be set in those situations. We then move on to discussing break-up sex, its causes and consequences, and how to have a mature conversation about it afterwards. We also touch upon ‘trial separations’ and why they might be unhealthy for you and your ex-partner. We finish by exploring boundaries with your family and friends after a split, and how little daily rituals can help you get through a tough time.  Please be aware that this episode contains sexual references so you might want to listen out of earshot of any children. **About our guests:** [Cate Campbell](https://www.catecampbell-psychonatter.com/) is a psychotherapist, supervisor and trainer specialising in relationships and trauma, working with individuals, couples and families. She is accredited by the British Association for Counselling & Psychotherapy (BACP), College of Sexual & Relationship Therapists (COSRT) and is an EMDR Europe. consultant. She is the author of[ The Relate Guide to Sex & Intimacy](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Relate-Guide-Sex-Intimacy-ebook/dp/B00VPPVBCK/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=),[ Love & Sex in a New Relationship](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Sex-Relationship-Cate-Campbell-ebook/dp/B0791FN9DQ/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=love+and+sex+in+a+new+relationship&qid=1596615622&s=digital-text&sr=1-3),[ Contemporary Sex Therapy](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contemporary-Sex-Therapy-Managing-Problems-ebook/dp/B084ZYMRZS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=contemporary+sex+therapy&qid=1596615722&s=digital-text&sr=1-1) and[ Sex Therapy: The Basics](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sex-Therapy-Basics-Cate-Campbell/dp/1032208732/ref=sr_1_1?crid=12MIMSLV9ZD82&keywords=sex+therapy+the+basics&qid=1655902993&s=books&sprefix=sex+therapy+teh+basics%2Cstripbooks%2C48&sr=1-1). **More resources:** You can learn more about Cate on [her website](https://www.catecampbell-psychonatter.com/) and you can get in touch with her via email - [cate.campbell@btopenworld.com](mailto:cate.campbell@btopenworld.com)  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk. They might just be the topic of a future episode! Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 139 — In brief: how parents can shape the future of research on child arrangements Published: 2025-05-21 · Duration: 19 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief:-how-parents-can-shape-the-future-of-research-on-child-arrangements > In this episode, Kate is joined by Dr Sarah Foley, a Lecturer in Developmental Psychology at the University of Edinburgh. In this episode, Kate is joined by Dr Sarah Foley, a Lecturer in Developmental Psychology at the University of Edinburgh. They explore her [current research](https://blogs.ed.ac.uk/sfoley/take-part/) on children’s relationships with their parents in different post-separation child arrangements. Sarah talks about why this research is important and how you can get involved. **About our guests:** Dr Sarah Foley is a Lecturer in Developmental Psychology at the University of Edinburgh. Her research explores parent-child relationships and the psychological wellbeing of family members across diverse family forms (e.g., elective co-parents, those created through assisted reproductive technologies, LGBTQIA+ parent-headed families) and transitions (e.g., becoming a parent, separation or divorce). Her [current research](https://blogs.ed.ac.uk/sfoley/take-part/) is exploring children’s relationships with their parents, adjustment and experiences of different post-separation child arrangements in England and Scotland. This is funded by an Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC) New Investigators Grant. She completed her PhD at the Centre for Family Research, University of Cambridge. **More resources:** You can register to take part in Sarah’s study [here](https://edinburgh.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_7NTbHGYUwglLQAm), and you can learn a bit more about this study on the [University of Edinburgh’s website](https://blogs.ed.ac.uk/sfoley/take-part/).  For more support with co-parenting, amicable offer [Separating With Children Service](https://amicable.io/separating-with-children-service) as well as an [app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for all your childcare arrangements and communications.  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk, through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 138 — The mind-body connection, Pilates and divorce recovery with Psychotherapist Andrew Keefe Published: 2025-05-14 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/pilates-and-divorce-recovery > In this episode, Kate is joined by Andrew Keefe, a Psychodynamic Psychotherapist and Pilates Teacher, to discuss how Pilates can support you during divorce and aid your recovery afterward. Andrew shares the science of trauma, how the nervous system functions under stress and why Pilates is an effective tool to help with the emotional aftermath of a relationship breakdown. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Andrew Keefe](https://www.traumaandbackpainrecovery.com/), a Psychodynamic Psychotherapist and Pilates Teacher, to discuss how Pilates can support you during divorce and aid your recovery afterward. Andrew shares the science of trauma, how the nervous system functions under stress and why Pilates is an effective tool to help with the emotional aftermath of a relationship breakdown.  **About the episode:** Kate and Andrew begin by exploring what trauma means in the context of divorce and the physical and mental symptoms it can trigger. Andrew explains the biological responses that often occur during and after a traumatic event like separation and how the controlled movements and breathing techniques at the core of Pilates can help soothe these reactions. He also shares other practical strategies for coping with divorce and separation, including simple breathing exercises, the importance of releasing tension in the body and how to build a supportive network. **About our guest:** [Andrew Keefe](https://www.traumaandbackpainrecovery.com/) is a Psychodynamic Psychotherapist, EMDR Therapist, Pilates Teacher and Personal Trainer (Level 4, Lower Back Pain Specialist.) He works with mind and body to help people recover from trauma and trauma / stress-related Chronic Lower Back Pain. Andrew has been a therapist for twenty-five years, including sixteen years of clinical work with traumatised refugees and survivors of torture. He now works in private practice in Holborn and East London, specialising in working with people living with the traumatic effects of childhood sexual abuse, domestic violence, abusive relationships, birth trauma, violence and chronic lower back pain. He also uses fitness sessions and Pilates to help people recover their mental wellbeing. **More resources:** You can learn more about Andrew and his work on [his website](https://www.traumaandbackpainrecovery.com/) We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk. They might just be the topic of a future episode! Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 137 — In brief: Beat ‘divorce anxiety’, overwhelm and fear with four expert tips Published: 2025-05-07 · Duration: 12 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/in-brief-divorce-anxiety > As part of Mental Health Awareness week, today Kate answers a listener's question all about ‘divorce anxiety’. Divorce and separation are never easy, whether amicable or not. As a relationship counsellor and a divorcee herself, Kate shares some tips to help you cope when you feel overwhelmed by worry during this time. As part of Mental Health Awareness week, today Kate answers a listener's question all about ‘[divorce anxiety](https://amicable.io/divorce-anxiety)’. Divorce and separation are never easy, whether amicable or not. As a relationship counsellor and a divorcee herself, Kate shares some tips to help you cope when you feel overwhelmed by worry during this time.    **About the episode:** Kate begins by explaining what ‘[divorce anxiety](https://amicable.io/divorce-anxiety)’ is and how fear of the unknown is often at the root of common worries and concerns, especially at the beginning of the divorce process. She then shares four top tips to help you protect your mental health during this tricky time – and start the divorce process on the right foot. **More resources:** Struggling emotionally? Explore our partners at [Betterhelp](https://hasofferstracking.betterhelp.com/aff_c?offer_id=40&aff_id=4178&source=amicable) for therapy or counselling support. You can also reach out to your GP or mental health charities like [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/) or [Samaritans](https://www.samaritans.org/).  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at [hello@amicable.co.uk](mailto:hello@amicable.co.uk), through [direct messages on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/amicable_world/) or by starting a new forum thread on [amicable’s advice forum](https://amicable.io/forum). They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 136 — Who gets the dog? Legal truths, animal welfare and post-split pet arrangements with the RSPCA Published: 2025-04-30 · Duration: 29 min · Category: Pets · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/legal-truths-animal-welfare-post-split-pet-arrangements-with-rspca > In this episode, host Kate is joined by Dr Samantha Gaines, Head of the RSPCA’s Companion Animals Science and Policy department, and Carol Harte, Divorce Specialist at amicable, to debunk some common myths about separating with pets. In this episode, host Kate is joined by [Dr Samantha Gaines](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-gaines-90429125/), Head of the [RSPCA’s](https://www.rspca.org.uk/) Companion Animals Science and Policy department, and Carol Harte, Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/), to debunk some common myths about separating with pets. **About the episode:** Kate, Carol and Samantha break down common myths about pet ownership during separation or divorce. They explain the legal realities, the emotional impact on pets – whether it’s a dog, cat or even a hamster – and share practical tips to help pets adjust to new routines. You'll also learn how to spot signs your pet might be struggling, and what to do if neither you nor your ex can care for them after your divorce or separation. **About our guests:** [Dr Samantha Gaines](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-gaines-90429125/) is Head of the [RSPCA’s](https://www.rspca.org.uk/) Companion Animals Science and Policy department. She leads a specialist team who use evidence to advocate for good lives for companion, working and sporting animals through corporate and government policy change and human behaviour change. She is the lead on a variety of issues including dog control, racing greyhounds and dogs kept for working purposes.  Prior to working at the RSPCA, Sam worked as a research scientist for the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory. She managed various projects studying the behaviour, performance and welfare of working dogs. She has an MSc in applied animal behaviour and welfare as well as a PhD from Bristol University, where she studied the effects of housing and husbandry on the welfare of kennelled dogs. Carol Harte is a Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/) and holds decades of experience in global change management, project negotiation and training. Having embarked on a career change to become an accredited family mediator, Carol aims to support separating parents and pet parents in their transition to being successful co-parents. **More resources:** You can find more advice on how to improve your pet’s welfare on the [RSPCA website](https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets).  We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at **hello@amicable.co.uk**. They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today.  Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 135 — In brief: Why Pep Guardiola's amicable approach to divorce is couple goals Published: 2025-04-23 · Duration: 10 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/pep-guardiolas-amicable-approach-to-divorce > This week, Kate is going behind the headlines of Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola and his ex-partner Cristina Serra’s divorce. Reports claim they’re using the ‘one lawyer, one couple’ approach to end their marriage while staying on good terms. This week, Kate is going behind the headlines of Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola and his ex-partner Cristina Serra’s divorce. Reports claim they’re using the ‘one lawyer, one couple’ approach to end their marriage while staying on good terms. **About the episode:** Kate breaks down the top three benefits of a collaborative divorce, using Pep Guardiola’s separation as an example. She explains who this approach works best for, and explores whether amicable divorces really are as rare as the media makes out – or if they’re becoming the norm. **More resources:** We'd love to know how we can help you further. Share your questions on divorce, separation and co-parenting with us at hello@amicable.co.uk.** **They might just be the topic of a future episode! You can also get in touch with amicable for more information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 134 — "I didn't skip a moment of the pain" Emma Campbell on surviving cancer, traumatic separation and single-parent guilt Published: 2025-04-16 · Duration: 44 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/emma-campbell-surviving-cancer-separation-and-single-parent-guilt > In this episode, Kate is joined by author and speaker Emma Campbell, better known to her Instagram followers as Limitless Em, to discuss her separation stories, cancer diagnosis and passion for running. In this episode, Kate is joined by author and speaker [Emma Campbell](https://limitlessem.com/), better known to her Instagram followers as [Limitless Em](https://www.instagram.com/limitless_em), to discuss her separation stories, cancer diagnosis and passion for running. **About the episode:** Emma starts by telling Kate how her parents' marriage and her relationship with her dad shaped her own romantic life. They go on to discuss her relationship with the father of her four children (including triplets!) and her difficult fertility journey. Emma shares her very personal take on how she found separation more difficult than her cancer diagnosis around the same time. Kate and Emma then talk about Emma’s subsequent marriage and the trials and tribulations of a blended family, what made it special and how it ultimately ended in divorce. Emma tells Kate why taking the time to feel the pain and sadness is vital after a separation.  Ever the optimist, she finishes by discussing her passion for running and why she believes that physical activity can help you get through anything, from cancer to a breakup.  **About our guest:** [Emma Campbell](https://limitlessem.com/) is an author, speaker and podcast host known to her 66K followers on Instagram as [Limitless Em](https://www.instagram.com/limitless_em), where she shares aspects of the incredible journey she’s been on as a cancer survivor, single mum of teenage triplets and so much more. She is known for her honesty, vulnerability and open-hearted approach to life and passionately believes that we all have limitless potential despite the challenges we may face.  Emma offers hope to thousands of women in the breast cancer community. She has learnt to celebrate a body that has been through so much, whilst accepting that she will remain on cancer treatment for life. Emma has completed two _Virgin London Marathons, the Great South Run, the Vitality 10K, _takes part in _CRUK’s Race for Life _every year and has a media place in the 2025 TCS London Marathon where she’ll be running as part of _[Team Bowelbabe](https://fundraise.cancerresearchuk.org/page/emmas-giving-page-326815755), _[raising vital funds for cancer research](https://fundraise.cancerresearchuk.org/page/emmas-giving-page-326815755).  **More resources:** Find more about Emma Campbell on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/limitless_em) and on [her website](https://limitlessem.com/). Donate to Emma’s London Marathon fundraiser for Bowelbabe Fund [here](https://fundraise.cancerresearchuk.org/page/emmas-giving-page-326815755). Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 133 — Support in unlikely places: Who really helps kids through parental separation? Published: 2025-04-09 · Duration: 41 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/support-in-unlikely-places-who-helps-kids-through-parental-separation > In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of Restored Lives Erik Castenskiold to discuss how to thrive as a child of separated parents, even as an adult. In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of Restored Lives Erik Castenskiold to discuss how to thrive as a child of separated parents, even as an adult. **About the episode:** Erik starts off by sharing his own experience of divorce and how it ultimately led him to found Restored Lives, a UK-based charity that provides resources and support for individuals and families affected by relationship breakdown. He then goes on to talk about Your Direction, a course that offers tools and skills for 12-30-year-old children of divorce to help them find future happiness and success. Kate and Erik explore why the course was created and what the sessions cover. They also address common concerns that parents may have about the initiative. Finally, they discuss the types of conversations that 12-17-year-old and 18-30-year-old children of divorce might be having during the sessions and how both age groups can benefit from this kind of support. **About our guest:** Erik Castenskiold is the founder of the charity Restored Lives which helps adults and children navigate the impact of divorce and separation. In the last 23 years, over 3,000 adults have been supported across 10 different countries with multiple resources, including an eight-week course, a book, and countless videos. Restored Lives has partnered with Spurgeons, a children’s charity, to launch Your Direction, a series of workshops for children of separated parents aged 12-17 and 18-30 years old. Your Direction helps to break the silence surrounding divorce and separation and helps children to build resilience, improve their wellbeing and enhance their relationships with their parents, as well as their friends and future partners.  **More resources:** You can learn more about [Restored Lives](https://www.restoredlives.org/) and [Your Direction](https://www.restoredlives.org/yourdirection) on their website. You can also follow [Your Direction](https://www.instagram.com/yourdirectionuk/) on Instagram for helpful tips and testimonials. Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 132 — Blame, forgiveness and key traits for divorce recovery Published: 2025-04-02 · Duration: 16 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/blame-forgiveness-and-key-traits-for-divorce-recovery > In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of Divorce Recovery Seminars, author, former barrister, and family court judge Christopher Compston to discuss his personal experience of divorce through his unique professional legal lens. In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of Divorce Recovery Seminars, author, former barrister, and family court judge Christopher Compston to discuss his personal experience of divorce through his unique professional legal lens. **About the episode:** Kate and Christopher start by discussing Christopher’s parents’ divorce and how this formed his view of marriage. He shares an invaluable insider perspective on the legal process having worked as a barrister and a judge. Christopher then goes on to explore his own experience of adultery and divorce. Kate and Christopher finish off by sharing some tips on how to recover, move on and lead a happy life after divorce, as well as some hard-hitting truths about how painful the experience can truly be. **About our guest:** Christopher Compston is a former barrister and was a Circuit Judge for nearly thirty years, dealing with everything from criminal to family matters. He retired in 2013. Twice married, he has had six children. For many years he and his current wife, Caroline, attended Holy Trinity Church in Brompton where he started and ran Divorce Recovery seminars for ten years. Christopher has written two books on the subject: ‘Recovering from Divorce’ (1993) and ‘Breaking Up Without Cracking Up’ (2011). **More resources:** You can learn more about [Restored Lives](https://www.restoredlives.org/) on their website, and you can purchase Christopher’s book ‘[Breaking Up Without Cracking Up](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Without-Cracking-practical-separation/dp/000274001X)’ on Amazon. Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 131 — ‘Silent’ separation, staying for the kids and writing to heal Published: 2025-03-19 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/silent-separation-staying-for-kids-and-writing-to-heal > In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning author Laura Pritchett to discuss how a lack of communication led to the end of her marriage – and how journalling and writing helped her understand the truth and ultimately move on. In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning author Laura Pritchett to discuss how a lack of communication led to the end of her marriage – and how journalling and writing helped her understand the truth and ultimately move on. **About the episode** Kate and Laura begin by discussing Laura’s essay, ‘[No sound, no fury, no marriage](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/style/modern-love-no-sound-no-fury-no-marriage.html)’, and her divorce experience, which inspired her to write the piece.  Laura explains how a lack of easy banter and general communication barriers ultimately led to the end of her marriage – and how journalling and writing her latest novel, ‘[Three Keys](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Keys-Novel-Laura-Pritchett/dp/0593724208)’, helped her understand the truth and move on.  Finally, Laura reflects on her 22-year marriage and what she’s learned about the part she played in the divorce. She shares how she eventually told her kids the news and the lessons she's taking forward into her next chapter… **About our guest** Laura Pritchett is an award-winning author of seven novels, two nonfiction books and editor of three anthologies. Her essay ‘[No sound, no fury, no marriage](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/style/modern-love-no-sound-no-fury-no-marriage.html)’ was featured in the Modern Love column of The New York Times, and her latest fiction book. ‘[Three Keys](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Three-Keys-Novel-Laura-Pritchett/dp/0593724208)’ is based on her own experience of divorce. All her work is rooted in the natural world, celebrating the people who live close to it. When not writing or teaching, she’s generally found exploring the mountains of her home state of Colorado, particularly those near the ranch where she was raised. **More resources** Discover [Laura Prichett’s work](https://www.laurapritchett.com/) on her website. Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 130 — Money trauma, relationships and the truth about pensions in marriage Published: 2025-03-05 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/money-trauma,-relationships-and-the-truth-about-pensions-in-marriage > In this episode, Kate is joined by a multi-award-winning Financial Coach and international author Catherine Morgan to discuss pensions and other financial aspects of divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by a multi-award-winning Financial Coach and international author [Catherine Morgan](https://catherinemorgan.com/) to discuss pensions and other financial aspects of divorce.  **About the episode:** Kate and Catherine begin by discussing Catherine’s journey to becoming a financial coach and how personal life trauma shapes her relationship with money. They consider how money trauma may affect thoughts and actions during a divorce or separation.  The conversation moves on to discuss pensions and why many people have such a strong emotional attachment to them. Catherine gives advice on how to avoid unfair pension arrangements during a divorce and what steps can be taken to improve your financial situation post-divorce.  Finally, Catherine shares her top tips on how to get on top of your finances through scheduling ‘money dates’ with yourself and much more.  **About our guest:** [Catherine Morgan](https://catherinemorgan.com/) is a Financial Wellbeing Speaker, multi-award-winning Financial Coach and international author. Her Amazon best-selling book, [It's Not About the Money](https://catherinemorgan.com/free-book-its-not-about-the-money/), presents a trauma-informed psychological approach to money.  As the founder of The Money Panel®, Catherine trains financial professionals through her acclaimed Financial Coach Certification programme and works with consumers under her personal brand by running courses and retreats.  After 15 years as a regulated financial adviser, Catherine created her current business focussed on the psychology of money. Recognised as one of the top 32 female entrepreneurs by Business Leader, her expertise has been featured in Forbes, Grazia, Meta, Amazon, The Telegraph and more. Her podcast ‘[It’s not about the money](https://catherinemorgan.com/podcast/)’ is in the top 0.5% in the world.  **More resources:** Learn more about Catherine on her [website](https://catherinemorgan.com/).  Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a[ free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 129 — Five arguments all couples need to have with Joanna Harrison Published: 2025-02-19 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/five-arguments-all-couples-need-to-have-with-joanna-harrison > In this episode, Kate is joined by therapist, author and former divorce lawyer Joanna Harrison to share expert tips on how to have a healthy argument in relationships, as parents and post-separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by therapist, author and former divorce lawyer [Joanna Harrison](https://joannaharrison.co.uk/) to share expert tips on how to have a healthy argument in relationships, as parents and post-separation.  **About the episode:** Kate and Joanna begin by discussing Joanna’s book, [Five Arguments All Couples (Need To) Have And Why The Washing Up Matters](https://amzn.eu/d/j33BDaa) (Souvenir Press, £9.99). Joanna explains how key couple differences when it comes to communication, in-laws, daily chores, personal space and sex can all lead to arguments in relationships. Kate and Joanna also explore how these conflicts can manifest between ex-partners and co-parents. Throughout the conversation, they consider each sticking point and give expert tips on how to have healthier, more constructive disagreements. The episode ends with Joanna's communication tips for co-parents, including creating space and time for important decisions and encouraging curiosity about your ex-partner.  **About our guest:** [Joanna Harrison](https://joannaharrison.co.uk/) is an experienced couple therapist, former divorce lawyer and author of_ _[Five Arguments All Couples (Need To) Have And Why The Washing Up Matters](https://amzn.eu/d/j33BDaa)_ _(Souvenir Press, £9.99)_._ She regularly speaks and writes about relationship issues in the media and specialises in supporting couples who are considering separation or going through it.  **More resources:** Learn more about Joanna on her [website](https://joannaharrison.co.uk/) or purchase her book in your local bookstore or [online](https://amzn.eu/d/j33BDaa).  You can also read our blog ‘[Is it over? Should I leave?](https://amicable.io/is-it-over-should-i-leave)’ on our website. Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today --- ## Episode 128 — Emotional regulation, maturity and how to get your mojo back post-separation Published: 2025-02-05 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/emotional-regulation-maturity-and-how-to-get-your-mojo-back-post-separation > In this episode, amicable co-founder Kate is joined by Life Coach Katie Lloyd to talk about emotional regulation, maturity and how to get your mojo back following a relationship breakdown. In this episode, amicable co-founder Kate is joined by Life Coach [Katie Lloyd](https://www.instagram.com/katielloydcoaching/) to talk about emotional regulation, maturity and how to get your mojo back following a relationship breakdown.  **About the episode:** Kate and Katie begin by exploring her personal divorce story as a new mum and how this impacted her life outlook and career. They then look at the importance of emotional regulation and maturity during the separation process and subsequent co-parenting journey. Katie explains how different people's perspectives can influence negotiations during a separation. They also discuss the role of friends and family, how community can be a wonderful support during and after separation and finish with Katie's top tips on how to get through a rocky period and come out stronger. **About our guest:** Katie is a life coach, certified NLP practitioner and mental health first aider and enjoys helping clients get their mojo back after midlife wobbles. She is a metaphorical handhold through mid-life ups and downs – she knows becoming a parent or a relationship breakdown can be a tricky time. If you throw co-parenting into the mix, there’s a lot to navigate! Customers go to Katie for help regulating their emotions and getting their sparkle back.  **More resources:** You can follow Katie on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/katielloydcoaching/). Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a[ free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. ### Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to theDivorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships,separation and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, oryou have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'mKate Daly, a Relationship Counselor, Divorce Specialist and Co Founder ofAmicable, the online legal service for separating couples.In each episode, we look at relationships and separation fromdifferent angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined byexperts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, andtips with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder, morewelcoming way. and better way.In this episode, I was joined by Lottie Jeffs and Anthony Siderto discuss queer parenting and different family structures. Lottie is an awardwinning magazine writer, an author, and podcaster. They're a [00:01:00] contributing editor of Grazia and havehosted the award winning podcast, Some Families, as well as Grazia's LifeAdvice, and most recently, From Gay to Z.Lottie writes for broadsheet newspapers and internationalmagazines and was previously the deputy editor of Elle. Lottie lives in Londonwith her wife, daughter and two cats. I was also joined by Anthony and Anthonyis a divorce specialist at Amicable and has worked in the area of divorce,mediation and family dispute resolution for over 10 years.His areas of interest include the voice of the child anddiverse and inclusive families. We kicked off today's episode by discussingLottie's story, as well as their current family dynamics. We move on to thetopic of LGBTQ plus families and the unique challenges they face when divorcingand separating.We delve into the dynamics that children create in blendedfamilies and the different communities and support structures available in theface of separation or divorce. Throughout the episode, we [00:02:00] focus on embracing and celebrating thedifferent types of families that are part of our society today. If you lovethis episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listeningplatform.Welcome Anthony and welcome Lottie. So today we're focusing oncelebrating different family types. including queer and blended families. NowLottie, your parents divorced when you were an adult. So do you want to startby telling us a little bit more about this, and whether you think that that'shad an impact on your own family?It's a really interesting question, and I don't think it hasdone, and I wonder if that is because it happened, as he said, when I was anadult. And it's not something that's been kind of lodged in my early brain ormy subconscious in a way that I've had to kind of work through throughout mychildhood and adult life.I was kind of pretty much like cooked as a person when ithappened. And I think that that was very [00:03:00]helpful for me, not to say it didn't take a lot of therapy and talking andprocessing and work, but in terms of its impact on my own relationships and myown ideas about commitment, I don't feel like it's had any kind of detrimentalimpact on on that at all.It's felt very sort of other to me. You say, even as an adultchild, and I think this is sometimes something we forget, it's not just youngchildren that are impacted by divorces, but adult children, um, are reallyimpacted too. And it sounds like, you know, you say you've had some therapy anda lot of talking about it to try and get to a place where it doesn't have anegative impact.That's really positive message for people, isn't it? That itdoesn't have to be a negative train wreck experience. It can be somethingthat's. survivable and you still go on to thrive and doesn't impact your viewof relationships? Definitely. And I think the thing about it happening when youare older [00:04:00] is that you're in aposition to be able to be a friend to your parents in the way that you're notwhen you're a child.So I certainly built a much more kind of authentic friendshipwith both of my are off the back of their separation. which is something thatin a way I'm very grateful for. And Anthony, you're, you're a friend of thepodcast. You've been on, um, before and you've talked a little bit about yourown experiences of being the child of, of divorced parents and you're nowstarting your own journey into adoption.So what do you think at this sort of really interesting pointin your life, what do you think the influences of your childhood experiencesare now that you're facing a new chapter in your life as a parent? I think itgives you a lot of resilience and a lot of strength. I can remember that one ofthe first mediators that I worked with said that I had always been a mediatorthroughout my life [00:05:00] because of thathappening at quite a young age and because it wasn't the nicest divorce aswell.And so I would hope, yet to find out, but I would hope thatthat will sort of support me further down the track in the adoption process tohelp a child sort of navigate through some of that change as well. And. Thatsort of resilience and that adaptability that comes into, into play too. AndLottie, you've written a book and I understand when you were talking to meearlier that you did a lot of research and talked to a lot of people fromdifferent backgrounds with different families.Tell me a little bit about what you learn. for on thechallenges that parents in the LGBTQ plus space face when they're separatingand divorcing. Yes, so the book is called The Queer Parent, Everything You NeedTo Know From Gay To Z. And we actually do have a chapter in the book. It'salphabetized, the book.And chapter X is for ex partners, divorce, [00:06:00] separation, and step parents. And Isuppose the main thing I learned from speaking to queer parents who were in theprocess of separating, or had separated, was this extra sense of pressure tosucceed as a queer parenting unit because You feel under so much scrutiny andyou feel like you've only just sort of earned the right to be a parent, earnedthe right to be married, therefore, why would you just sort of throw it allaway and make it look like queer people can't navigate parenting challenges orrelationship challenges well enough?And so I really recognize that for queer parents there was areal extra layer of shame, I suppose, attached to divorcing and separating,because it's something that certainly becoming a parent, you would have workedso hard to become, [00:07:00] you know, it'snot just going to happen naturally for you. And so then to kind of have torecognize that this is a relationship that needs to separate is even more hard,I think, to reckon with than if you're in a straight relationship.And Anthony, tell us a little bit about shame and where shamecomes from because it's something we talk about quite a bit, isn't it? Thatstill, even today in 2024, we're still having to talk about divorce being ashameful thing or separation being a shameful thing. What's keeping it going, Iguess? I think it's the, um, societal expectations, really, and societal normsthat make a lot of these things harder than they need to be, and I thinkparticularly for queer parents and queer families, we are just the same as anyother family in the sense that we get into relationships the same way, ourrelationships end in similar ways, we have blended families just likeheterosexual couples have as well, So I think it's just [00:08:00] those societal norms and a lot of it is aboutvisibility and really normalizing these things as well.One of my favorite chapters from your book, Lottie, is Q forQueerification, and it was the story that you tell in there about the Sylvanianfamilies and mix and matching them to represent your families. And I thoughtthat's a really good example of how we're having to do a lot of that work tonormalize.in society who we are. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Say a bit moreabout that then, um, Anthony, because this idea of having to normalize, I mean,whether you're in a, um, a queer relationship or a heterosexual relationship,we still feel shame. So what is it about RT that is not allowing us to get pastthis idea of the breakdown of a relationship?being a shameful thing and can we learn any lessons if you'vehad to fight harder to have your relationship recognized is there [00:09:00] something that we can take from that toreally try and overcome that sense of shame and taboo more generally speakingnot just in the queer parenting world can we take a lesson and apply it moregenerally in a positive way is that I don't know what you think Well, I, Ithink that it does apply to, to every relationship.And I think it is that, that idea that's still really ingrainedabout, you know, what a marriage looks like and, and what a divorce looks likeas well. And it's just one of those things that it's becoming more and morecommon and particularly in the way that we're working in the space of divorceand separation, that it doesn't have to be, you know, a big battle, a bigfight.It can be something that is worked through and that they can benew partners and blended families. I think one of the lessons that.particularly queer families can maybe hopefully give to heterosexual couplesand heteronormative families is that we are already very used to having some ofthose conversations about difficult adult concepts with our children, [00:10:00] about, you know, where they come from,about what that journey has looked like, and about how family structures aredifferent.And that's something that is, you know, you know, always donefrom a young age because in, you know, many situations you sort of can't reallyavoid that. And so I think it's just about being able to have those adultconversations to children in a child appropriate way and building on those asthey grow up as well.Yeah, I actually couldn't agree more with that, Anthony. Ithink that is something we're really good at as queer families talking about.difficult things and normalizing things from a really young age. It just makesme think I have a family friend at the moment who they are separating but theyhaven't told their teenage children.She is having another relationship with another man and the manin the relationship is a lot older and is, they're just carrying on as normal.And it strikes me that there's a [00:11:00]real lack of understanding about how important it is to not lie to yourchildren, um, and to bring them on the journey with you and to lean into someof these difficult conversations and make them feel like they have a sense ofagency in these conversations.And I feel that, you know, thinking about like an equivalent ofTalking to my daughter about her donor, that's something that we have reallytried to normalize from even before she could talk, you know, just using thewords, talking about a donor, making it like a very normal, non dramatic thing.Something we talk about in the book is really trying to avoid any kind of likebombshell, big reveal moments.And what I feel observing this family that I'm telling youabout is that they're gearing themselves up for there being a big revealbombshell moment. And I just don't see how any good is going to come of that.My advice, as I've said, [00:12:00] I'm not anexpert, but I would have thought talking to them slowly about, you know, thingsare maybe changing, our feelings are changing, and gearing up to sort of littlebreadcrumbs of information is better than A.lying to them, concealing the truth, and b, just telling themall, if you do tell them, in one fell swoop. Yeah, and I think a lot of thetime that can come from a place of the best intentions, trying to protect thechildren and, and trying not to, you know, As you say, sort of drop a bombshellon them, but, but actually, the, the end result can be exactly that, whatthey've been trying to avoid, where it's a bit more of a slow and steadyapproach.I often say to parents that, that I work with, you know, youdon't have to have all the answers, you know, you can, you can plan as much aspossible on a piece of paper, but actually until you start implementing thatplan and living it out, you're not going to get it 100 percent done. Right. Andso it's not had that high [00:13:00]expectation on, on themselves as well.So yeah, I, I would completely agree with that approach. Wehave quite an old fashioned still sense of parenting, I guess, don't we, wherethis idea of protecting children and them not being able to cope with emotionalthings. We sort of perpetrate that, don't we? And I think when parents aregoing through that difficult scenario of getting separated or divorcing, youalmost.go back a stage, don't you? And you think, Oh, I can't doanything to hurt them because the actual act of separating is so hurtful initself. I've got to be overprotective and you're right. And if it's been partof the way you've brought your kids up, because you're having theseconversations come from and how you're going to pair and, and the differentfamily types that everybody sort of is involved in now, it's kind of.That's just the norm to continue it, isn't it? So although Ihear what you say, Lottie, in terms of there is this extra pressure, you'vealso got a slight superpower running alongside that, haven't you? If you, if asa family, whatever [00:14:00] the family setupyou are, if as a family you've always been confronting how you've come about asa family and the fact that you're a slightly different family than to say someother heteronormative families that were, you know, All that family stuff getsreinforced in day to day society, then yes, you have got a bit of an advantage,as well as, as you say, the additional layer of shame for feeling like you'veworked hard to get this right and now family up.But I think, I wonder if there's also a risk of there beingstereotypes and us playing into stereotypes, and I don't know what you think,Lottie, in terms of the stereotypes around separating parents when it's queerparenting. Do you think there are some stereotypes that people suffer from? Iguess it's harder, isn't it, when you don't have gender to be your kind ofstereotype if one partner, you know, the stereotype in a heterosexualrelationship might be that.The man cheats, [00:15:00]whereas if it's a two man partnership, what do you do with that stereotype? So,I don't think we do suffer from the same stereotyping. I think the main problemI would imagine that separating queer parents face is that it's happening atall because it's so not normal. Because it's so, relatively speaking, new forqueer people to be getting married, it's still even newer for them to beseparating.For them to be getting divorced, yeah. Yeah, for queer parentswho are divorcing, there's a, you know, with straight people, It's kind oflike, okay, you know, I know lots of people who have separated. It's not amassive surprise when it happens. Whereas I think with queer parents, there'sstill a real sense of surprise and not really being able to believe it.So I imagine that separating queer couples really have to facethat a lot. And Anthony, then do you think there's an [00:16:00]opportunity, because I guess a lot of, particularly some of the parentingconversations we have, they still tend to be very gendered, um, withinparenting, particularly when you're talking about which parents are going tospend the majority of the time looking after children.Although shared care is definitely way more prevalent andpopular as an option than it ever used to be. There's still quite a lot ofgendered parenting that goes on. So I guess maybe there's an opportunity thenin a queer divorce for not to have to play into that gendered parenting. Okay.There's a stay at home, primary caregiver, mom usually, and then there's a dadgoing out to work.So, That presents opportunities to come up with more creativeand to normalize different shared care patterns as well, doesn't it? So there'sa great opportunity by looking at the full diverse range of families to bringmore diversity across the board, it would seem. I don't know what your [00:17:00] thoughts are on that.Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. And I would say, you know,that's something that doesn't just start at the point of. Divorce, you know, itstarts at the very beginning of the parenting journey for Lots of queerfamilies because of those norms and it's it's freeing in a sense because therearen't those same expectations the the division of of labor in terms ofparenting in terms of the household and in general and I think it's a lot morefreeing to be able to sort of play to your strengths in that sense.It also means that we're Already used to having thoseconversations at the point of a separation or at the point of a divorce becausethere haven't been those assumptions that some heteronormative families andcouples may have had and may have just sort of slipped into because that's thequote unquote norm.So yeah, I think there is an opportunity there and I think theother thing to be aware of is Particularly with single parents is around a lotof the terminology, you know, like, there's lots of mum and baby support groupsand Facebook groups and things like [00:18:00]that. And I don't think that's particularly helpful for anyone.And again, that doesn't just apply to queer couples and queerfamilies. I think that applies to everyone as well. Yeah, absolutely, Anthony.Lottie, were there any other learnings from your research for your book? In myresearch, most of the families, um, had navigated a way through to createblended, happy families, but we did also meet people for whom it had been astruggle.And even though it wasn't necessarily gender that was the thingthat was defining roles in, in a divorce, it was. still, you know, potentiallyother things like biology, which is an interesting one, you know, does thebirth mother have more of a right? than the non birth mother, for example. Andit brings up all sorts of moral questions in that respect that, [00:19:00] you know, there's not really a precedentfor hugely at the moment.So I think it still can be very complicated for queer people,even more so, especially with adoptive parents. Sometimes maybe there'ssomething quite helpful about both being biologically Related to a child,because if you don't have that, there's sort of things that can become a littlebit more hard to define in terms of roles, so I think it's nice to think thatqueer parents, you know, are more naturally likely to form happy, blended,radically reimagined kinds of families, but also I think that there can be someissues that are specific to queer parents.to queer people in divorce as well, such as, you know, aroundsurrogacy, around adoption, and around biological relationships. I think thatsort of links to the need for there to be a lot more sort of open dialogue andflexibility, and why sort of [00:20:00]resources around queer families and their experiences aren't just for queerfamilies, but it's also for, you know, It's also for family.It's also for friends to be able to have those conversations.Like, you know, I know that you and I have had a few conversations now that I'msort of partway through the adoption process around, well, what's it going tolook like? You know, I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't know whatthat's going to look like.I don't know what my needs are going to be. And it's sort ofthe same in the situations of divorce and separation and not being able to havefixed hard and fast expectations around. what that's going to look like. It'sunique to every family. Let's talk a little bit about speaking to children.Lotta, you touched on it earlier, and you made the point that very often kidsin queer families have grown up talking about some quite tricky subjects from avery early stage.And the point that, you know, that means you don't storesomething up and then drop it as a bombshell, which I agree with. If you'reused to having those conversations, it's much better that you drip feed some ofthis [00:21:00] information in. How do we thenencourage parents to talk to their children more openly about their separationor divorce?Well, my instinct would be that, as you were saying earlier,waiting until everything is sorted and then delivering a kind of fait accomplito children. isn't going to make it any better. In fact, I would imagine itkind of makes it worse to just be presented with all this information that notonly is this happening, but we've got a new house and moving in, there's a newpartner, and this will be your bedroom.I mean, depending on the age, of course, but I'm talking, Iguess, about slightly older children. I think that's just a sort of disastrousway of presenting the information to them. Personally, I would imagine that. AsI said before, bringing them on the journey a little bit is going to make themfind it a lot easier to digest small pieces of information.[00:22:00] Rather than havingeverything completely sorted out. And also, is everything ever completelysorted out in a divorce? I imagine if, if what you're waiting for before youtell your children is some kind of clarity, that you might be waiting for yearsand years and years. You know, everything takes a long time.Moving, buying a house, moving out, all of these things. Like,if you're waiting for these things outside of your own control to be sorted,Before you tell your children, I just think that that's a really, really badidea. And I think that as soon as you're sure that this is something thatyou're going to do, and that you're sure you're separating, I think you need togive your children the respect they deserve.And tell them that there's going to be some changes and thatyour relationship has changed, because we all know children pick up on stuff,they will know the mood has changed, the environment has changed, the way yourparents are talking to each other has [00:23:00]changed, and that kind of sense of anxiety about there being somethingdifferent or something wrong that you can't quite name, you can't quiteunderstand, that is the kind of thing that's going to cause a child to.You know, stress and anxiety and confusion, much more so thanknowing that something's happened, but it's okay, and your parents are dealingwith it, and, you know, I just think sometimes parents can hide behind the ideaof wanting to protect the children from something, whereas actually they'retrying to protect themselves because they haven't quite seen dealt with theirown shame, you know, about a relationship breaking down or, or about having hadan extramarital affair or something.And I think, honestly, I think it can be a little bit selfish.And I think that you can think that you're doing the right thing for the child,but actually you're just, um, doing the right thing for you. I completely agreewith that, and I think it extends as well to what the parenting relationship [00:24:00] looks like moving forward from that pointas well, and making sure that it is what is going to work best for your family,and particularly for your child, you know, often people come up with plans becausethey are plans that they think It's what they should be doing.Like, for example, still trying to get together every Sunday tohave a meal together as a family. Well, if you can do that, and that's going tobe comfortable, then absolutely. But if you're going to be sitting there reallytense, really awkward, there's going to be a lot of friction. Why are you doingit? Um, and so I think it's about sort of being honest with yourself as welland the situation that you're in and how raw things are feeling.And that might be something that changes over time and ineither direction. Yeah, small and frequent conversations rather than one bigconversation because it's certainly not something that is a one and done sortof thing. But is there an extra pressure then as a queer parent to do thingslike You know, be extra super friendly so that you're kind [00:25:00] of not sort of, as you were sayingearlier, Lottie, this idea that we've, we've fought quite hard to get to thispoint, so we can't then be seen to be just throwing it all away.But is that then a massive pressure? Because we always havethis debate, this co parenting and sometimes co parenting issue. Absolutely.just isn't possible and you have to parallel parent. Parallel parent is whereeffectively you've got two separate dictatorships. You know, you do my rules inmy house, in your other parent's house, you have their rules and they could bevery different.And then you've got co parenting, which is where we all agreeon a set of rules and we try and effectively have two homes and it's one, it'sone thing. So just, I wonder if there's that extra pressure. Because of thatpoint you made earlier, to be, you know, real happy, clappy co parents, whenactually, well, you might be having the bitterest of all divorces.And just because you're a queer parent doesn't mean you'regoing to necessarily be in the co parenting camp. So, is that a real thing? Isthere, do you think there is an extra pressure? I think [00:26:00] there definitely is, you know, a real sense ofperfectionism. We're still at the vanguard really of queer parenting and we'restill at this need to kind of prove that we deserve it, prove that we've earnedit, prove that we're good enough.But of course we are and it's a shame that we feel so Burdenedby this sense of having to be perfect parents because it is probably reallyhaving a negative impact and I think certainly in a divorce and separation likeit's going to be a real added pressure and I know some people like some queerparenting influencers actually who I follow on social media.have recently announced their separation. And I was imagining,I don't know them well, but I've followed their kind of content. And I wasimagining for them, my God, that's even more pressure because you've kind ofset yourself up as this, you know, figureheads, the face of queer parenting.And you've got like a public profile and you've, you know, been showing on yoursocial media, look how great we're [00:27:00]parenting can be and look at our happy family.Then to have to announce that. You know, it isn't easy and thatyou are separating. You must just feel a real added sense of havingdisappointed people, I think, which must be really hard. Yeah, and then, likeyou say, the pressure to behave absolutely perfectly through it, and nobodycan. I mean, it's just impossible.You know, we work in this every day. You, you can have all thebest intentions and that's brilliant, but sometimes it gets to you. You'regoing to be ratty and horrible. You're going to say the wrong thing to yourkids. You're going to shout at your partner. You're going to not put your bestfoot forward, and it's okay.And I just worry that this added pressure you've spoken aboutso eloquently just drives some of those negative feelings underground. Andactually, what we really need to do is create a space for people just to bethemselves and be real, rather than having to feel they've got to be the faceof, you know, like you say, you know, model parenting, just because, you know,you've come at it from a different perspective.So [00:28:00] that's my worryfor it. Like you say, that there's a lot of pressure on people at the momentbecause it's such a hard one, right. And because it's still at it's in itsearlier days of being accepted. Yeah. And what do you think then in terms ofblended families? Are, are there any real kind of additional challenges ifyou're a queer blended family than if you're a heteronormative blended family?Or is it all just blended family stuff and it's hard whicheverwhich way you do it because there are so many kids and so many schedules to tryand make a line? Well, I do think that if, um, and this was my experience ofspeaking to some people for the books, if the queer relationship has come aboutafter a heterosexual relationship and perhaps the children were born intoheterosexual parents and then, so someone I spoke to in the book came out as alesbian, You know, later in life when their child was 10 or 11, I think thatcan be an extra pressure, uh, or challenge in a blended family because [00:29:00] it's maybe a surprise to the left part.Yeah. The, the, maybe the, the whole family is also having tokind of reckon with the mother's sexuality. And so that's an additional layer.I think that. It happens within blended families, for sure. So there can beadded complexity depending on the individual circumstance. What, what's yourthoughts, Anthony, from a blended family perspective?Because you're part of a blended family, aren't you anyway?Albeit you're an adult now. Yeah, yeah. I think children generally are quiteresilient, but it's exactly that. It's, you know, no, Two blended families arethe same. And particularly with queer families, that's not necessarily as aresult of a separation or divorce.There can be, for example, a gay couple and a lesbian couplewho have always co parented children. And, you know, there may be separationbetween that. So you may end up with sort of four blended families and, youknow, end up with sort of eight, Parenting figures. So I think there's alwaysgoing to be, uh, [00:30:00] complexities, andit's about just working through that.But, but again, I think the advantage sometimes that we have isbecause We have always had to talk to our children about where they've comefrom and the different family structures and, and how that works. It's not acompletely new and fresh conversation and concept, um, the idea of a differentfamily structure.It's just a different one to what they're already used to. So Iguess it's, there could be extra layers of complexity, as you say, but there'salso some advantages from, because we've said before, haven't we, that there'sbeen a dialogue from a much earlier age, potentially. Communication might bebetter.People might be used to talking about things in a more open andinclusive way, I guess. It strikes me then that there are, you've got expertsall meriting in blended family queer parenting in the parents themselves, andto some extent in the kids themselves, then you've got [00:31:00]the people who are meant to help you sort all this stuff out.So the mediators, the divorce, we, I should say we, not they,we have got a bit of catching up to do then in terms of being especially openand aware of the different issues. What do you think, Lottie, that theprofession can do to be more inclusive, to be more aware and to be more able tosupport and help queer parents when they're going through divorce andseparation?I think one simple thing is language. I think Anthony alludedto this earlier, just being really aware of the language that you're using onall of your communications, on your website and emails, you know, notdefaulting to mum and dad, using imagery of different kinds of families in allof your marketing materials and websites and things.I think honestly that makes such a difference and it is quite asimple thing to do. I don't think It needs to be a big kind of event, you [00:32:00] know, making a service appealing to, toqueer parents or queer people. It's just, can be quite simple. So I think justlooking at the existing language you do have and making sure that all thepeople that work with you from receptionists to mediators to lawyers, you know,that everyone's on the same page with that language.And so that when queer people are coming. to you for a service.They're not feeling like they're having to come out over and over again todifferent people that they meet, might meet. So I think that would be a greatstarting point. And Anthony, this is your bag. What are your thoughts? Yeah.Yeah. When, when I'm speaking with people for the first time, I always makesure to never assume.So I will always refer to Their ex partner rather than an exhusband or an ex wife. You know, I'm not going to be making that assumption inthe same way as I would always refer to people as parents rather than mum ordad because [00:33:00] I don't know what, whatterminology works well for them, um, and what they use.Whereas I think, you know, a parent as a general term doesn'ttake away from anyone, but it can help. To ensure that people don't feel leftout or, or like Lottie said, that you're not having to come out to people atvarious steps along the way, particularly through a process like this, where itmay be that you're speaking to, you know, quite a few different services orsupport agencies for various things and you're not wanting to have thatconversation every single time.We're running out of time. So I just want to ask a finalquestion of you both. If there are queer parents listening and they want somekind of tips or help and advice, Anthony, what would you say at this stage? Tobe honest, I would say Lottie's book, The Queer Parent is a fantastic resource,really, really useful.But also just to seek that support and advice wherever you canand to try and have those conversations and have some conversations with. yourfriends and family about what, what [00:34:00]you're experiencing as well, rather than trying to manage everything yourself.And obviously that's something that we can assist with at Amicable too.And then Lottie, so kind of similar question to you, but if youhad to summarize from your book one of the sort of key pieces of advice youwould give to a queer parent going through a divorce or separation, what wouldyou say? Well, I would say that within our book, The Queer Parent, we've gotsome really specific advice for people who have separated after surrogacy atdifferent stages of surrogacy.We've got advice for people who are separating as fostercarers, which is a really interesting one. And also interestingly, uh, we'vespoken to a couple who have separated very amicably after one of the coparents. transitioned to become a trans woman or to be the trans woman that shealways was. And so that is some very specific advice and case studies aboutthat situation.So we also cover [00:35:00]step parenting, how to be a good step parent and also, yeah, relationshipswhere the children have been the product of a past heterosexual relationshipand then within a new queer relationship. the new partner is taking on a coparenting role. So every iteration of a blended family and separation I thinkis hopefully addressed in the book The Queer Parent.So yeah, check it out. Thank you. And I guess you agree thatit's better to try and communicate and to negotiate yourselves rather thandefault to having to go through lawyers to do this because the law at thispoint point is not especially helpful or clear on a lot of these cases. And soit's always better to try and keep the lines of communication open and to dothings in a more amicable way.So just to end then, Lottie, where can we, you've talked aboutthe book, do you want to give us another quick flash of the book and tell usthe name of where you can find it? Yeah, sure. So it's just, uh, it's going tobe out in paperback from May and you can get it on Amazon or, uh, all goodbookshops. [00:36:00] It's called The QueerParent, Everything You Need to Know from Gay to Z.And it's by myself and my lovely co writer, Stu Oakley, who isan adoptive dad to three beautiful children. So please, yeah, find it whereveryou like to put it. Buy your books from. Thank you. And Anthony, if people arelistening and they want to speak to Amicable about drawing up a separationagreement or divorcing and separating, anything like that, we offer free 50minute phone calls, don't we?Where can people find the Amicable help? Find out more about uson our website, amicable. co. uk and also on social media as well. And you canhear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visitingthedivorcepodcast. com. Or on your favorite listening platform. Don't forgetfor separation and co parenting support you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our free resources. Thankseverybody for [00:37:00] listening.‍ --- ## Episode 127 — Would you host a divorce party? Breaking the stigma with Sonia Gupta Published: 2025-01-22 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/would-you-host-a-divorce-party-breaking-the-stigma-with-sonia-gupta > In this episode, amicable co-founder Kate is joined by Relationship & Divorce Coach Sonia Gupta to talk about her arranged marriage, separation story and why she joined a growing number of people hosting divorce celebration parties. In this episode, amicable co-founder Kate is joined by Relationship & Divorce Coach [Sonia Gupta](https://www.itsasoniathing.com/) to talk about her arranged marriage, separation story and why she joined a growing number of people hosting divorce celebration parties.   **About the episode:** Kate and Sonia begin the episode by exploring Sonia’s arranged marriage, relationship and parenting journey. Sonia speaks candidly about how she struggled emotionally before making the decision to divorce. They also discuss the lack of family support Sonia experienced at the time. Sonia finishes by exploring the freedom she feels post-divorce and why she hosted a divorce party for her friends and family to celebrate the beginning of a new chapter.   **About our guest:** [Sonia](https://www.itsasoniathing.com/) is a mum of two who became a relationship and divorce coach following her own divorce. Sonia's journey serves as a beacon of hope, encouraging others to break free from stigma and judgment and embrace the promise of a fulfilling life post-divorce.  **More resources:** Learn more about Sonia on her [website](https://www.itsasoniathing.com/), and follow her on [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/sonia.gupta_itsasoniathing_?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==) for inspirational content.  Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and parenting aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. --- ## Episode 126 — Making your children heard during divorce and separation Published: 2025-01-08 · Duration: 42 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/making-your-children-heard-during-divorce-and-separation > In this episode, Kate is joined by Paul Richardson, an amicable Divorce Specialist, and Carlie Norris, an Accredited Family Mediator, to discuss how the voice of the child can be heard during the divorce and separation process. In this episode, Kate is joined by Paul Richardson, an [amicable](https://amicable.io/) Divorce Specialist, and [Carlie Norris](https://www.circlemediation.co.uk/about)**, **an Accredited Family Mediator, to discuss how the voice of the child can be heard during the divorce and separation process. **About the episode:** Kate and her guests begin by discussing how child arrangements were made historically, and what are the current options available to separating parents. Paul then goes on to explain how amicable’s services help with child arrangements, and Carlie talks about the process and benefits of child-inclusive mediation. They also talk about how transparent conversations can reduce the overall level of conflict and strengthen relationships between both co-parents and children. Paul and Carlie finish off by giving tips on how to navigate the emotional side of the process for you and your children.  **About our guests:** Paul is a Divorce Specialist with amicable and has been in family law for 20 years, qualifying as a family solicitor in 2010. He is also an Accredited Family Mediator with vast experience of working with couples to arrive at mutually agreed to prioritise any children of the family. Paul stepped away from his role as solicitor to join amicable in 2024 to help those going through separation work together to resolve issues regarding divorce, finances and children. He understands the emotions couples are going through and is able to adopt a sensitive, yet professional approach, to help guide them through the process. Carlie Norris is an Accredited Family Mediator and is Child-Inclusive Mediation trained. As the founder of [Circle Mediation](https://www.circlemediation.co.uk/), Carlie has a particular passion in considering the child’s voice in family separation and in November 2023 co-authored the Family Solutions Group Report ‘[A Child’s Right to Matter](https://www.familysolutionsgroup.co.uk/a-childs-right-to-matter-2/)’. With more than a decade of dedicated experience in Restorative Justice, Restorative Practice, Family Group Conferencing, and Safeguarding within Children’s Services, Carlie’s enthusiasm for these fields shines through in her work. She is deeply committed to facilitating processes that empower participants to create meaningful, lasting solutions. Beyond her mediation practice, Carlie’s passion extends to education, as she continues to deliver training in restorative interventions and conflict resolution to organisations across both the public and private sectors. **More resources:** Get in touch with Carlie Norris through [Circle Mediation](https://www.circlemediation.co.uk/) or through [Family Mediators Association](https://thefma.co.uk/).  Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://calendly.com/d/crj-93m-rp4) with an amicable expert today. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 125 — Navigating the holidays without your children Published: 2024-12-25 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/navigating-the-holidays-without-your-children > In this episode, Kate is joined by amicable’s Divorce Specialists, Anthony Syder and Bec Jones, to share tips on coping with not being with your children. In this episode, Kate is joined by amicable’s Divorce Specialists, Anthony Syder and Bec Jones, to share tips on coping with not being with your children. Perhaps your child is with their other parent, and you may be listening to this on Christmas or another special occasion. **About the episode:** This episode looks at tips and advice to help you get through. Kate and her guests begin by describing common arrangements for children and focus on typical holiday arrangements and the effects they might have on you as a parent if you don’t get to spend this time with your kids. They explore how arrangements might affect children’s feelings, and what steps you can take to ensure that everyone has a great Christmas day without feeling guilty or worried. Anthony and Bec also share tips on how to approach talking about Christmas or other holiday arrangements with your co-parent and planning the festive season in advance. They finish off by sharing some tips about self-care if you’re spending this Christmas without your children. **About our guests:** Anthony is a Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/) and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 8 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child and diverse and inclusive families. Having had over 10 years of experience as a divorce lawyer, Bec leads amicable's Negotiation team. Bec played a vital role in developing the amicable process and is renowned for her empathetic approach. With expertise in child arrangements, blended families, and complex finances, she is a fountain of knowledge. **More resources:** We understand that special occasions can be hard to cope with if you're not spending them with your children. If you feel that you need some professional help with mental health or simply an unbiased person to talk about your situation with, please visit [BetterHelp](https://hasofferstracking.betterhelp.com/aff_c?offer_id=40&aff_id=4178&source=amicable%20) via this [link](https://hasofferstracking.betterhelp.com/aff_c?offer_id=40&aff_id=4178&source=amicable%20) to get 20% off the first month for amicable customers. [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/need-urgent-help/using-this-tool/) is a mental health charity that is always here to provide you with the help and support that you might need. Alternatively, please get in touch with your GP or call 111 to get mental health help and advice. Please get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 124 — Advice from The Breaking Dad and his new partner on blended families Published: 2024-12-11 · Duration: 50 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/advice-from-the-breaking-dad-and-his-new-partner-on-blended-families > In this episode, Kate is joined by parenting team, Dan and Rosie, to talk about blended families. In this episode, Kate is joined by parenting team, Dan and Rosie, to talk about blended families. **About the episode:** Kate and her guests begin by exploring Dan and Rosie's very different separations with Rosie’s being more amicable then Dan's. They talk about the value of prioritising collaborating with your ex-partner. They also describe how they introduced each other to their children and how they approached conversations with ex-partners. Dan and Rosie look at common challenges like disciplining each others children and navigating boundaries. They finish by talking about unexpected joys and working alongside their ex-partners new relationships and families.   **About our guests:** [Dan](https://thebreakingdad.co.uk/about/) is a 34-year-old Dad from Hampshire, and co-parent to his beautiful eight-year-old daughter Evie. Evie’s mum and Dan separated just over five years ago when she was two and have since been navigating the ups and downs of a co-parenting life which as we know can be tough. Dan started to share their journey together on social media in an honest, no-frills and candid way, to show other co-parents who are struggling with parental separation that they aren’t alone. He now has a substantial online following and is known as The Breaking Dad. Rosie is the loving mother to Tilly, 9, and Liza, 5. After meeting Dan, they began the rewarding but sometimes challenging journey of blending their families and now expect a baby girl together later this year. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 123 — Healing with a Divorce Doula Published: 2024-11-27 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/healing-with-divorce-doula > In this episode, Kate is joined by Farhana Hussain, the UK's first Divorce Doula, to discuss the healing journey post-divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Farhana Hussain](https://mydivorcedoula.org.uk/), the UK's first Divorce Doula, to discuss the healing journey post-divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Farhana start the episode by talking about her journey to becoming a ‘divorce doula’, including her own struggles of finding support in the emotional journey of divorce. Farhana shares her own take on cooperative parenting and unique nesting arrangements. they then look at how she helps others through separation and how to get creative with deciding arrangements for children. Kate was fascinated by Farhana’s process of helping people their ‘why’ which they can use as as a guiding light throughout the separation and co-parenting process. **About our guest:** [Farhana](https://mydivorcedoula.org.uk/) is on a mission to revolutionise divorce support. As a British Bangladeshi and devoted mother to three teenagers, she combines practical advice with deep emotional and spiritual healing, streamlining the cost of divorce on your finances, mind, and body. She has been featured as a divorce expert in magazines, broadsheets, and national papers, including the BBC, Evening Standard & Good Housekeeping. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a **[free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/)** with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 122 — How the latest government budget could impact your divorce Published: 2024-11-13 · Duration: 27 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-the-latest-government-budget-could-impact-your-divorce > In this episode Kate is joined by Louise Oliver, a Certified Financial Planner, to discuss the recent budget announcement and how it will affect divorcing couples at different stages of the process. In this episode Kate is joined by [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/), a Certified Financial Planner, to discuss the recent budget announcement and how it will affect divorcing couples at different stages of the process. **About the episode:** Kate and Louise start by summarising the main headlines from the announcement. Then they go on to explore in detail how CGT, increased stamp duty on 2nd homes, tax on the sale of businesses, increased VAT on private schools and changes to the rules on inheriting pensions affect divorcing couples and their children. They finish off by giving tips on how to manage the anxiety that comes with financial changes by seeking timely advice as well as having important conversations about these changes at every stage of the divorce process.  **About our guest:** [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/) is a Certified Financial Planner with over 30 years of experience. She's often a go-to expert for commentary for the National and local media. Louise is also a member of [Resolution](https://resolution.org.uk/), a community of family justice professionals who work with families and individuals to resolve issues involving the breakdown of your marriage in a constructive way. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a **[free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/)** with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 121 — The three G's with Paul Roseby Published: 2024-10-30 · Duration: 42 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/the-three-g-with-paul-roseby > In this episode, Kate is joined by Paul Roseby OBE to talk about his separation and divorce story. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Paul Roseby](https://www.nyt.org.uk/news/new-news-article-194/) OBE to talk about his separation and divorce story. **About the episode** In this episode, Paul opens up about his divorce, sharing the sudden shift in his long-term marriage when his ex-husband decided to end their relationship. He describes the emotional challenges of navigating the separation and how he coped with the pain. Kate and Paul explore the valuable lessons he gained from the experience, including the three G's. They end the episode by discussing his current relationship and the growth that came from his journey. **About our guests:** Paul is a broadcaster and CEO and Artistic Director of the National Youth Theatre. In over a decade at the helm of the world’s leading youth arts charity he has commissioned over 150 plays, pioneered the NYT REP Company, led a ground-breaking international cultural exchange programme and directed many hit productions. They include the London 2012 Team Welcome Ceremonies, Handel & Hendrix at Somerset House, Generation Sext for Sky Arts, When Romeo Met Juliet for BBC2, and Tom Stoppard’s abridgement of Shakespeare’s The Merchant of Venice at the Royal Opera House and the National Centre for Performing Arts in Beijing.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 120 — Property & divorce FAQs Published: 2024-10-16 · Duration: 52 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/property-divorce-faqs > In this episode, Kate is joined by Jamie Cole, the co-founder of Sail Homes and Sail Legal, and Edwina Homfray-Davies, a Licensed Conveyancer with over 20 years of experience and part of Sail Legal, to discuss the most common property and divorce FAQs. In this episode, Kate is joined by Jamie Cole, the co-founder of [Sail Homes](https://sailhomes.co.uk/) and Conveynext, and Edwina Homfray-Davies, a Licensed Conveyancer with over 20 years of experience and part of Sail Legal, to discuss the most common property and divorce FAQs. **About the episode** The discussion starts by exploring the impact property ownership has during divorce and separation. Jamie and Edwina look at how property is treated in a divorce including options such as buying-out your ex-partner, joint ownership or selling and splitting the proceeds. They consider the various professionals you may need to use, such as conveyancers, mortgage brokers, estate agents and your bank, and which documents you need for buying and selling property during a divorce. Edwina and Jamie give great tips on Stamp duty land tax and how to ‘ensure you’re exempt from the additional 3% levy. They also discuss the customer journey in a transaction between ex-spouses, and how a Separation Agreement can speed up the process. Jamie and Edwina share the most common pitfalls and a few top tips for selling a property and explain how their expertise in dealing with transfers post-divorce can make the whole process a lot smoother and quicker. **About our guests:** Jamie Cole, co-founder of Sail Homes, has been involved in property since 2017, specialising in probate and conveyancing. He has successfully exited two businesses, and prior to his property career, worked in fitness software. Jamie now focuses on helping clients navigate property sales during life transitions, such as divorce, with a strong track record of delivering results.  Edwina Homfray-Davies is a Licensed Conveyancer and Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Legal Executives (FCILEx) with over 20 years of experience in conveyancing. She brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to every property transaction, having successfully navigated clients through countless sales, purchases, and property law complexities. For the past three years, Edwina has been at the helm of Conveynext, which offers a modern, client-focused approach to conveyancing. Known for her meticulous attention to detail and commitment to smooth, transparent property transactions, Edwina is passionate about delivering excellence in legal services. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 119 — Neurodiversity, divorce and separation Published: 2024-10-02 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/neurodiversity-divorce-and-separation > In this episode, Kate is joined by Dr. Angharad Rudkin and Anthony Syder to talk about neurodiversity, divorce and separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by Dr. Angharad Rudkin and Anthony Syder to talk about neurodiversity, divorce and separation. **About the episode:** In this episode, we look at what neurodiversity is and explore how it impacts both neurodivergent adults and children during family separation. Angharad and Anthony share their tips on navigating specific issues, such as the negotiation process, legal process and cooperative parenting. **About our guests:** Angharad is a Clinical Psychologist with over 20 years of experience working with children and their families and lecturing on child psychology at the University of Southampton. In collaboration with [OnlyMums](https://www.onlymums.org/) and [OnlyDads](https://www.onlydads.org/) Angharad designed and runs the popular "What About Henry?" course for family law professionals. Angharad has co-authored parenting books and children’s books and was the Consultant Editor for the divorce guide “101 Questions about Separation and Divorce with Children”. Angharad is the author of “The Split Survival Kit” which she wrote with children’s author Ruth Fitzgerald. Angharad regularly appears on TV and radio as an expert on child and family issues and has recently been shortlisted for the Resolution Children’s Champion Award. Anthony is a divorce specialist at amicable and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 8 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child and diverse and inclusive families. Angharad is running a one-hour session titled ‘Neurodiversity – What does it mean?’. For more details and to book, please [click here](https://www.whatabouthenry.com/short-courses). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 118 — How to untie the knot amicably Published: 2024-09-18 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-to-untie-the-knot-amicably > In this episode, Kate was joined by Joe & Kate Sharp, two amicable customers, to share their divorce story. In this episode, Kate was joined by Joe & Kate Sharp, two amicable customers, to share their divorce story. **About the episode:** In this episode, host Kate Daly was joined by two [amicable](https://amicable.io/) customers, Kate and Joe, to talk about their amicable divorce and unique co-parenting arrangements. Kate is a home-educating parent and Joe works in IT, having given up he’s teaching career during the divorce process, to be able to provide more income to the family. In this episode, they talk about Kate & Joe’s relationship, the early stages of their separation, how they navigated the divorce process and negotiating a financial agreement using amicable’s services and their unique co-parenting setup. **About our guests:** Joe & Kate Sharp are two [amicable](https://amicable.io/) customers who appear on the podcast to talk about their divorce journey and experience with [amicable](https://amicable.io/). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 117 — A therapist's guide to navigating trauma during relationships, breakups, and divorce Published: 2024-09-04 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/a-therapists-guide-to-navigating-trauma-during-relationships-breakups-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by psychotherapist Lulu Sunnucks to explore trauma during relationships, separation and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by psychotherapist [Lulu](https://www.ls-psychotherapy.com/) Sunnucks to explore trauma during relationships, separation and divorce. **About the episode:** [Lulu](https://www.ls-psychotherapy.com/) Sunnucks is a psychotherapist who joins Kate to explore trauma. In the episode, they look at the varying degrees of trauma during and after a relationship breakdown. Lulu gives some great tips and advice about navigating trauma and how to break patterns when moving on to new relationships to healthy and happy relationships.  **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing, including abuse, sexual violence and poor mental health. **Organisations who can help:** - **[Women's aid](https://www.womensaid.org.uk/)** - **[Refuge ](https://refuge.org.uk/)** - **[ManKind Initiative ](https://mankind.org.uk/)** - **[Men's advice line](https://mensadviceline.org.uk/)** - **[Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/)** - **[Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)** - **[Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services)** - mental health charity - **[Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan)**- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - **[YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger)** – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help **[here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469)** **About our guests:** [Lulu](https://www.ls-psychotherapy.com/) worked as a Lifestyle Strategist and Personal Coach to some of the world's most powerful individuals for twenty years before retraining as a Trauma Psychotherapist. She completed her clinical placement in a Women’s refuge, working with survivors of rape, domestic violence, sex trafficking and sexual violence. Lulu now runs her own busy private practice in the Cotswolds and she is currently working towards registration as a clinical sexologist and couples therapist. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 116 — Navigating name changes in relationships, separation, and divorce Published: 2024-08-21 · Duration: 40 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/navigating-name-changes-in-relationships-separation-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by the Founder and Managing Director of NameSwitch, Cécile Mazuet-Eller, to discuss navigating name changes in relationships, separation, and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by the Founder and Managing Director of [NameSwitch](https://www.nameswitch.co.uk/?ref=amicablepodcast), Cécile Mazuet-Eller, to discuss navigating name changes in relationships, separation, and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Cécile focus on why people choose to change their name following a change in relationship status, including the practical and emotional factors. Cécile deep-dives into what happens during a separation or divorce. She provides her tips and advice around when's the best time to do this, as well as common pitfalls.    **About our guest:** Having experienced first-hand the pain and frustration of navigating through the name-change maze after getting divorced, Cecile set up NameSwitch to help others blitz through their name-change and embrace their next life chapter with simple, [affordable packages](https://www.nameswitch.co.uk/deed-poll-package/?ref=amicablepodcast). NameSwitch is the first and only service in the UK to offer name-change notification as well as deed poll packages. You can download NameSwitch's free name change checklist [here](https://www.nameswitch.co.uk/free-checklist/?ref=amicablepodcast) and can find them on all social media channels, including; [TikTok](https://www.tiktok.com/@nameswitchuk), [Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/nameswitchUK/), [Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/name_switch/), [LinkedIn ](https://www.linkedin.com/company/nameswitch-ltd/)and [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@nameswitch3501/featured). To order a certified copy of your original decree absolute or final order, click [here](https://www.gov.uk/copy-decree-absolute-final-order). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 115 — Comedians Bobby Mair and Harriet Kemsley get divorced (part two) Published: 2024-08-07 · Duration: 39 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/comedians-bobby-mair-and-harriet-kemsley-get-divorced-part-two > In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning comedian, writer, and actress Harriet Kemsley to discuss her divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning comedian, writer, and actress [Harriet Kemsley](https://harrietkemsley.com/home) to discuss her divorce. **About the episode:** In part two, Kate is joined by comedian Harriet Kemsley to talk about her marriage, separation, and divorce from fellow comedian Bobby Mair. Harriet talks about why Bobby and her separated, how they have managed to achieve an amicable separation, their child-centred co-parenting arrangements, and how they have navigated challenges during the process.  **About our guests:** [Harriet Kemsley](https://harrietkemsley.com/home) is an award-winning comedian, writer and actress. She has starred in the Viceland reality sitcom Bobby and Harriet: Get Married, which she co-created and co-wrote with her ex-husband, Bobby Mair, to huge critical acclaim. She can also be seen on Dave's Hypothetical, ITV's Hey Tracey, Comedy Central’s Roast Battle, and is a recurring guest on 8 out of 10 Cats Does Countdown and 8 Out of 10 Cats. Her other credits include hosting the BBC Radio 4 Comedy Club, The Radio 1 Comedy Lounge, BBC3’s Comedy Marathon, The One Show (Edinburgh Special) and Kevin’s Hart’s LOL Live. Harriet’s awards include the Leicester Mercury New Act of the Year Finalist, Funny’s Funny Winner, Up The Creek New Act of the Year Winning and Leicester Square New Act of the Year Finalist. She has been described by Time Out as ‘a very funny rising star’ and as one of Rhod Gilbert’s ‘Ten Comics to See’ in the Mail on Sunday. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 114 — Comedians Bobby Mair and Harriet Kemsley get divorced (part one) Published: 2024-07-24 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/comedians-bobby-mair-and-harriet-kemsley-get-divorced-part-one > In this episode, Kate is joined by comedian Bobby Mair to talk about his divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by comedian [Bobby Mair](https://www.instagram.com/bobbymaircomedian) to talk about his divorce. **About the episode:** In this first of two episodes, Kate is joined by comedian Bobby Mair to talk about his marriage, separation, and divorce from fellow comedian Harriet Kemlsey. Bobby talks about how they have managed to achieve an amicable separation, created child-centred co-parenting arrangements, and the role of their friends and family during their separation. Kate and Bobby explore some challenges, and Bobby shares his tips on separating amicably. **About our guests: ** [Bobby Mair](https://www.instagram.com/bobbymaircomedian/?hl=en-gb) is a Canadian stand-up comedian based in London. He starred in his own sitcom with his wife on Vice and Comedy Central called Bobby and Harriet: Get Married, he has appeared multiple times on Comedy Central’s Roast Battle including appearing in a battle with his wife that got millions of hits online. His other credits include 8 Out of 10 Cats (Channel 4), and Never Mind the Buzzcocks (BBC2). He’s opened for Doug Stanhope, Bill Burr and Bill Maher and appeared three times at Just For Laughs in Montreal.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 113 — Finding joy in relationships, separation and divorce with Ali Mortimer Published: 2024-07-10 · Duration: 44 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/finding-joy-in-relationships,-separation-and-divorce-with-ali-mortimer > In this episode, Kate is joined by Coach and Author Ali Mortimer to discuss navigating difficult moments in relationships and how finding joy can help in this journey. In this episode, Kate is joined by Coach and Author [Ali Mortimer](https://www.alimortimer.com/contact-me) to discuss navigating difficult moments in relationships and how finding joy can help in this journey. **About the episode:** Kate and Ali begin the episode by looking at Ali’s separation story, where she talks about how her relationship was taken to the brink following her husband’s infidelity and how they were able to repair their relationship following Ali’s journey of self-discovery and their joint relationship work. Ali then dives into the idea of 'finding joy' and how it is created on the foundations of holistic health and peace of mind, something Kate and Ali explore in navigating rocky patches in relationships. They also look at the idea that although Ali is still married to her husband, they both identify with being in their second marriage, having grieved the loss of their first. This is a fantastic episode for listeners in any stage of a relationship, whether you’re looking for tools to create a healthy, happy relationship or whether you want to understand if you’re relationship is past the point of repair. **About our guests:** [Ali Mortimer](https://www.alimortimer.com/contact-me) is a Mentor, Coach, Speaker and Author who focuses on experiencing joy in life. Ali believes that to die happy is to have lived a joyous life, one of pure abundance, prosperity, generosity and fun. Ali has endeavoured to embody this philosophy after her own loss and trauma, finding her way out of darkness into light, overcoming and embracing obstacles of health, life, work and love, and creating her own business from her motivations. Ali believes Joy is created on the foundations of holistic health and peace of mind; amplified with love and dreams. She knows now that all paths lead to Joy when walked with love. Have the courage to take those first tentative steps towards joy. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 112 — The two Ds – death and divorce Published: 2024-06-26 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/the-two-ds-death-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of Octopus Legacy, Sam Grice to discuss death and divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by the founder of [Octopus Legacy](https://octopuslegacy.com/), Sam Grice to discuss death and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Sam begin this episode by looking at Sam’s story. They explore the concept of grief and how it connects with the loss felt during a divorce or separation, as well as other aspects of the emotional journey. They look at the legal steps required after loss and the idea that you need to update your will whenever there’s a life change, like a divorce or separation. **About our guests:** Sam Grice is the founder of [Octopus Legacy](https://octopuslegacy.com/). In 2017, Sam's Mum died suddenly in a car accident, the process that followed was overwhelming, and the grief was made much harder by the tedious hours of paperwork, and legal admin that comes after a loss. Sam founded Octopus Legacy to make life easier for the people who are left behind after someone dies. Octopus Legacy has since helped over 300,000 people plan for death and find support after a loss. They offer a range of estate planning services from wills to life insurance, as well as probate and bereavement support. When people think about planning for death they think about writing a will, sorting a funeral plan, and taking out life insurance. Octopus Legacy aims to take these cold processes and turn them into something much more human, inviting you to share more than money. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 111 — How legal tech is shaping family law with Richard Susskind Published: 2024-06-12 · Duration: 43 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/how-legal-tech-is-shaping-family-law-with-richard-susskind > In this episode, Kate is joined by Professor Richard Susskind OBE KC (Hon) to discuss the future of family law and legal services. In this episode, Kate is joined by Professor Richard Susskind OBE KC (Hon) to discuss the future of family law and legal services. **About the episode:** This episode is focused on technology, the future of family law and legal services. Richard explains how the landscape has changed and what we, as consumers, can expect for the future. Especially when it comes to AI, alternative dispute resolution delivered remotely and things that haven’t even been imagined yet.  **About our guests:** Richard is the world’s most cited author on the future of legal services. He is President of [The Society for Computers and Law](https://www.scl.org/about-scl/) and he served as Technology Adviser to the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales. His main area of expertise is the future of professional services and the way that AI and other technologies are changing the work of lawyers. He advises leading professional firms, in-house legal departments, and governments and judiciaries around the world. Richard has authored ten books, including [The Future of Law ](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-future-of-law-9780198764960)and [Tomorrow’s Lawyers](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/tomorrows-lawyers-9780192864727). He has also contributed more than 150 columns to The Times. In 2000, he was made an OBE, and In 2022, the King approved Richard’s appointment as an Honorary King’s Counsel.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 110 — Celebrating different family types with Lotte Jeffs Published: 2024-05-29 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-110-celebrating-different-family-types-with-lotte-jeffs > In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning magazine writer Lotte Jeffs and amicable Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to discuss queer parenting and different family structures. In this episode, Kate is joined by award-winning magazine writer [Lotte Jeffs](https://lottejeffs.com/) and [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to discuss queer parenting and different family structures. **About the episode:** Kate and Lotte begin the episode by exploring Lotte’s story and current family dynamics. They then move on to look at the topic of LGBTQ+ families and the unique challenges they face during a divorce or parental separation. Later, they explore the dynamics children create in blended families and the different communities and support structures available in the face of separation. **About our guests:** Lotte is an award-winning magazine writer, an author and podcaster. They are a contributing editor for [Grazia ](https://graziadaily.co.uk/)and have hosted the award-winning podcast ‘[Some Families](https://www.instagram.com/somefamiliespod/?hl=en)’ as well as ‘[Grazia Life Advice](https://open.spotify.com/show/5KTmeJ9dhexcqMz0VXknrN)’ and most recently ‘[From Gay To Ze](https://open.spotify.com/show/06PEQu96aWmAl0g74SCGUr)’. Lotte writes for broadsheet newspapers, and international magazines and was previously Deputy Editor of ELLE. Lotte lives in London with their wife, daughter and two cats. Anthony is a divorce specialist at amicable and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 10 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child, as well as diverse and inclusive families. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. ### Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to theDivorce Podcast, where we explore all aspects of ending relationships,separation and parenting apart. If your marriage or partnership has ended, oryou have friends and family who are separating, this podcast is for you. I'mKate Daly, a Relationship Counselor, Divorce Specialist and Co Founder ofAmicable, the online legal service for separating couples.In each episode, we look at relationships and separation fromdifferent angles, including the emotional, legal, and social. I'm joined byexperts and special guests who share their own unique stories, experience, andtips with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder, morewelcoming way. and better way.In this episode, I was joined by Lottie Jeffs and Anthony Siderto discuss queer parenting and different family structures. Lottie is an awardwinning magazine writer, an author, and podcaster. They're a [00:01:00] contributing editor of Grazia and havehosted the award winning podcast, Some Families, as well as Grazia's LifeAdvice, and most recently, From Gay to Z.Lottie writes for broadsheet newspapers and internationalmagazines and was previously the deputy editor of Elle. Lottie lives in Londonwith her wife, daughter and two cats. I was also joined by Anthony and Anthonyis a divorce specialist at Amicable and has worked in the area of divorce,mediation and family dispute resolution for over 10 years.His areas of interest include the voice of the child anddiverse and inclusive families. We kicked off today's episode by discussingLottie's story, as well as their current family dynamics. We move on to thetopic of LGBTQ plus families and the unique challenges they face when divorcingand separating.We delve into the dynamics that children create in blendedfamilies and the different communities and support structures available in theface of separation or divorce. Throughout the episode, we [00:02:00] focus on embracing and celebrating thedifferent types of families that are part of our society today. If you lovethis episode, then please subscribe and rate us on your preferred listeningplatform.Welcome Anthony and welcome Lottie. So today we're focusing oncelebrating different family types. including queer and blended families. NowLottie, your parents divorced when you were an adult. So do you want to startby telling us a little bit more about this, and whether you think that that'shad an impact on your own family?It's a really interesting question, and I don't think it hasdone, and I wonder if that is because it happened, as he said, when I was anadult. And it's not something that's been kind of lodged in my early brain ormy subconscious in a way that I've had to kind of work through throughout mychildhood and adult life.I was kind of pretty much like cooked as a person when ithappened. And I think that that was very [00:03:00]helpful for me, not to say it didn't take a lot of therapy and talking andprocessing and work, but in terms of its impact on my own relationships and myown ideas about commitment, I don't feel like it's had any kind of detrimentalimpact on on that at all.It's felt very sort of other to me. You say, even as an adultchild, and I think this is sometimes something we forget, it's not just youngchildren that are impacted by divorces, but adult children, um, are reallyimpacted too. And it sounds like, you know, you say you've had some therapy anda lot of talking about it to try and get to a place where it doesn't have anegative impact.That's really positive message for people, isn't it? That itdoesn't have to be a negative train wreck experience. It can be somethingthat's. survivable and you still go on to thrive and doesn't impact your viewof relationships? Definitely. And I think the thing about it happening when youare older [00:04:00] is that you're in aposition to be able to be a friend to your parents in the way that you're notwhen you're a child.So I certainly built a much more kind of authentic friendshipwith both of my are off the back of their separation. which is something thatin a way I'm very grateful for. And Anthony, you're, you're a friend of thepodcast. You've been on, um, before and you've talked a little bit about yourown experiences of being the child of, of divorced parents and you're nowstarting your own journey into adoption.So what do you think at this sort of really interesting pointin your life, what do you think the influences of your childhood experiencesare now that you're facing a new chapter in your life as a parent? I think itgives you a lot of resilience and a lot of strength. I can remember that one ofthe first mediators that I worked with said that I had always been a mediatorthroughout my life [00:05:00] because of thathappening at quite a young age and because it wasn't the nicest divorce aswell.And so I would hope, yet to find out, but I would hope thatthat will sort of support me further down the track in the adoption process tohelp a child sort of navigate through some of that change as well. And. Thatsort of resilience and that adaptability that comes into, into play too. AndLottie, you've written a book and I understand when you were talking to meearlier that you did a lot of research and talked to a lot of people fromdifferent backgrounds with different families.Tell me a little bit about what you learn. for on thechallenges that parents in the LGBTQ plus space face when they're separatingand divorcing. Yes, so the book is called The Queer Parent, Everything You NeedTo Know From Gay To Z. And we actually do have a chapter in the book. It'salphabetized, the book.And chapter X is for ex partners, divorce, [00:06:00] separation, and step parents. And Isuppose the main thing I learned from speaking to queer parents who were in theprocess of separating, or had separated, was this extra sense of pressure tosucceed as a queer parenting unit because You feel under so much scrutiny andyou feel like you've only just sort of earned the right to be a parent, earnedthe right to be married, therefore, why would you just sort of throw it allaway and make it look like queer people can't navigate parenting challenges orrelationship challenges well enough?And so I really recognize that for queer parents there was areal extra layer of shame, I suppose, attached to divorcing and separating,because it's something that certainly becoming a parent, you would have workedso hard to become, [00:07:00] you know, it'snot just going to happen naturally for you. And so then to kind of have torecognize that this is a relationship that needs to separate is even more hard,I think, to reckon with than if you're in a straight relationship.And Anthony, tell us a little bit about shame and where shamecomes from because it's something we talk about quite a bit, isn't it? Thatstill, even today in 2024, we're still having to talk about divorce being ashameful thing or separation being a shameful thing. What's keeping it going, Iguess? I think it's the, um, societal expectations, really, and societal normsthat make a lot of these things harder than they need to be, and I thinkparticularly for queer parents and queer families, we are just the same as anyother family in the sense that we get into relationships the same way, ourrelationships end in similar ways, we have blended families just likeheterosexual couples have as well, So I think it's just [00:08:00] those societal norms and a lot of it is aboutvisibility and really normalizing these things as well.One of my favorite chapters from your book, Lottie, is Q forQueerification, and it was the story that you tell in there about the Sylvanianfamilies and mix and matching them to represent your families. And I thoughtthat's a really good example of how we're having to do a lot of that work tonormalize.in society who we are. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Say a bit moreabout that then, um, Anthony, because this idea of having to normalize, I mean,whether you're in a, um, a queer relationship or a heterosexual relationship,we still feel shame. So what is it about RT that is not allowing us to get pastthis idea of the breakdown of a relationship?being a shameful thing and can we learn any lessons if you'vehad to fight harder to have your relationship recognized is there [00:09:00] something that we can take from that toreally try and overcome that sense of shame and taboo more generally speakingnot just in the queer parenting world can we take a lesson and apply it moregenerally in a positive way is that I don't know what you think Well, I, Ithink that it does apply to, to every relationship.And I think it is that, that idea that's still really ingrainedabout, you know, what a marriage looks like and, and what a divorce looks likeas well. And it's just one of those things that it's becoming more and morecommon and particularly in the way that we're working in the space of divorceand separation, that it doesn't have to be, you know, a big battle, a bigfight.It can be something that is worked through and that they can benew partners and blended families. I think one of the lessons that.particularly queer families can maybe hopefully give to heterosexual couplesand heteronormative families is that we are already very used to having some ofthose conversations about difficult adult concepts with our children, [00:10:00] about, you know, where they come from,about what that journey has looked like, and about how family structures aredifferent.And that's something that is, you know, you know, always donefrom a young age because in, you know, many situations you sort of can't reallyavoid that. And so I think it's just about being able to have those adultconversations to children in a child appropriate way and building on those asthey grow up as well.Yeah, I actually couldn't agree more with that, Anthony. Ithink that is something we're really good at as queer families talking about.difficult things and normalizing things from a really young age. It just makesme think I have a family friend at the moment who they are separating but theyhaven't told their teenage children.She is having another relationship with another man and the manin the relationship is a lot older and is, they're just carrying on as normal.And it strikes me that there's a [00:11:00]real lack of understanding about how important it is to not lie to yourchildren, um, and to bring them on the journey with you and to lean into someof these difficult conversations and make them feel like they have a sense ofagency in these conversations.And I feel that, you know, thinking about like an equivalent ofTalking to my daughter about her donor, that's something that we have reallytried to normalize from even before she could talk, you know, just using thewords, talking about a donor, making it like a very normal, non dramatic thing.Something we talk about in the book is really trying to avoid any kind of likebombshell, big reveal moments.And what I feel observing this family that I'm telling youabout is that they're gearing themselves up for there being a big revealbombshell moment. And I just don't see how any good is going to come of that.My advice, as I've said, [00:12:00] I'm not anexpert, but I would have thought talking to them slowly about, you know, thingsare maybe changing, our feelings are changing, and gearing up to sort of littlebreadcrumbs of information is better than A.lying to them, concealing the truth, and b, just telling themall, if you do tell them, in one fell swoop. Yeah, and I think a lot of thetime that can come from a place of the best intentions, trying to protect thechildren and, and trying not to, you know, As you say, sort of drop a bombshellon them, but, but actually, the, the end result can be exactly that, whatthey've been trying to avoid, where it's a bit more of a slow and steadyapproach.I often say to parents that, that I work with, you know, youdon't have to have all the answers, you know, you can, you can plan as much aspossible on a piece of paper, but actually until you start implementing thatplan and living it out, you're not going to get it 100 percent done. Right. Andso it's not had that high [00:13:00]expectation on, on themselves as well.So yeah, I, I would completely agree with that approach. Wehave quite an old fashioned still sense of parenting, I guess, don't we, wherethis idea of protecting children and them not being able to cope with emotionalthings. We sort of perpetrate that, don't we? And I think when parents aregoing through that difficult scenario of getting separated or divorcing, youalmost.go back a stage, don't you? And you think, Oh, I can't doanything to hurt them because the actual act of separating is so hurtful initself. I've got to be overprotective and you're right. And if it's been partof the way you've brought your kids up, because you're having theseconversations come from and how you're going to pair and, and the differentfamily types that everybody sort of is involved in now, it's kind of.That's just the norm to continue it, isn't it? So although Ihear what you say, Lottie, in terms of there is this extra pressure, you'vealso got a slight superpower running alongside that, haven't you? If you, if asa family, whatever [00:14:00] the family setupyou are, if as a family you've always been confronting how you've come about asa family and the fact that you're a slightly different family than to say someother heteronormative families that were, you know, All that family stuff getsreinforced in day to day society, then yes, you have got a bit of an advantage,as well as, as you say, the additional layer of shame for feeling like you'veworked hard to get this right and now family up.But I think, I wonder if there's also a risk of there beingstereotypes and us playing into stereotypes, and I don't know what you think,Lottie, in terms of the stereotypes around separating parents when it's queerparenting. Do you think there are some stereotypes that people suffer from? Iguess it's harder, isn't it, when you don't have gender to be your kind ofstereotype if one partner, you know, the stereotype in a heterosexualrelationship might be that.The man cheats, [00:15:00]whereas if it's a two man partnership, what do you do with that stereotype? So,I don't think we do suffer from the same stereotyping. I think the main problemI would imagine that separating queer parents face is that it's happening atall because it's so not normal. Because it's so, relatively speaking, new forqueer people to be getting married, it's still even newer for them to beseparating.For them to be getting divorced, yeah. Yeah, for queer parentswho are divorcing, there's a, you know, with straight people, It's kind oflike, okay, you know, I know lots of people who have separated. It's not amassive surprise when it happens. Whereas I think with queer parents, there'sstill a real sense of surprise and not really being able to believe it.So I imagine that separating queer couples really have to facethat a lot. And Anthony, then do you think there's an [00:16:00]opportunity, because I guess a lot of, particularly some of the parentingconversations we have, they still tend to be very gendered, um, withinparenting, particularly when you're talking about which parents are going tospend the majority of the time looking after children.Although shared care is definitely way more prevalent andpopular as an option than it ever used to be. There's still quite a lot ofgendered parenting that goes on. So I guess maybe there's an opportunity thenin a queer divorce for not to have to play into that gendered parenting. Okay.There's a stay at home, primary caregiver, mom usually, and then there's a dadgoing out to work.So, That presents opportunities to come up with more creativeand to normalize different shared care patterns as well, doesn't it? So there'sa great opportunity by looking at the full diverse range of families to bringmore diversity across the board, it would seem. I don't know what your [00:17:00] thoughts are on that.Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. And I would say, you know,that's something that doesn't just start at the point of. Divorce, you know, itstarts at the very beginning of the parenting journey for Lots of queerfamilies because of those norms and it's it's freeing in a sense because therearen't those same expectations the the division of of labor in terms ofparenting in terms of the household and in general and I think it's a lot morefreeing to be able to sort of play to your strengths in that sense.It also means that we're Already used to having thoseconversations at the point of a separation or at the point of a divorce becausethere haven't been those assumptions that some heteronormative families andcouples may have had and may have just sort of slipped into because that's thequote unquote norm.So yeah, I think there is an opportunity there and I think theother thing to be aware of is Particularly with single parents is around a lotof the terminology, you know, like, there's lots of mum and baby support groupsand Facebook groups and things like [00:18:00]that. And I don't think that's particularly helpful for anyone.And again, that doesn't just apply to queer couples and queerfamilies. I think that applies to everyone as well. Yeah, absolutely, Anthony.Lottie, were there any other learnings from your research for your book? In myresearch, most of the families, um, had navigated a way through to createblended, happy families, but we did also meet people for whom it had been astruggle.And even though it wasn't necessarily gender that was the thingthat was defining roles in, in a divorce, it was. still, you know, potentiallyother things like biology, which is an interesting one, you know, does thebirth mother have more of a right? than the non birth mother, for example. Andit brings up all sorts of moral questions in that respect that, [00:19:00] you know, there's not really a precedentfor hugely at the moment.So I think it still can be very complicated for queer people,even more so, especially with adoptive parents. Sometimes maybe there'ssomething quite helpful about both being biologically Related to a child,because if you don't have that, there's sort of things that can become a littlebit more hard to define in terms of roles, so I think it's nice to think thatqueer parents, you know, are more naturally likely to form happy, blended,radically reimagined kinds of families, but also I think that there can be someissues that are specific to queer parents.to queer people in divorce as well, such as, you know, aroundsurrogacy, around adoption, and around biological relationships. I think thatsort of links to the need for there to be a lot more sort of open dialogue andflexibility, and why sort of [00:20:00]resources around queer families and their experiences aren't just for queerfamilies, but it's also for, you know, It's also for family.It's also for friends to be able to have those conversations.Like, you know, I know that you and I have had a few conversations now that I'msort of partway through the adoption process around, well, what's it going tolook like? You know, I don't know when it's going to happen. I don't know whatthat's going to look like.I don't know what my needs are going to be. And it's sort ofthe same in the situations of divorce and separation and not being able to havefixed hard and fast expectations around. what that's going to look like. It'sunique to every family. Let's talk a little bit about speaking to children.Lotta, you touched on it earlier, and you made the point that very often kidsin queer families have grown up talking about some quite tricky subjects from avery early stage.And the point that, you know, that means you don't storesomething up and then drop it as a bombshell, which I agree with. If you'reused to having those conversations, it's much better that you drip feed some ofthis [00:21:00] information in. How do we thenencourage parents to talk to their children more openly about their separationor divorce?Well, my instinct would be that, as you were saying earlier,waiting until everything is sorted and then delivering a kind of fait accomplito children. isn't going to make it any better. In fact, I would imagine itkind of makes it worse to just be presented with all this information that notonly is this happening, but we've got a new house and moving in, there's a newpartner, and this will be your bedroom.I mean, depending on the age, of course, but I'm talking, Iguess, about slightly older children. I think that's just a sort of disastrousway of presenting the information to them. Personally, I would imagine that. AsI said before, bringing them on the journey a little bit is going to make themfind it a lot easier to digest small pieces of information.[00:22:00] Rather than havingeverything completely sorted out. And also, is everything ever completelysorted out in a divorce? I imagine if, if what you're waiting for before youtell your children is some kind of clarity, that you might be waiting for yearsand years and years. You know, everything takes a long time.Moving, buying a house, moving out, all of these things. Like,if you're waiting for these things outside of your own control to be sorted,Before you tell your children, I just think that that's a really, really badidea. And I think that as soon as you're sure that this is something thatyou're going to do, and that you're sure you're separating, I think you need togive your children the respect they deserve.And tell them that there's going to be some changes and thatyour relationship has changed, because we all know children pick up on stuff,they will know the mood has changed, the environment has changed, the way yourparents are talking to each other has [00:23:00]changed, and that kind of sense of anxiety about there being somethingdifferent or something wrong that you can't quite name, you can't quiteunderstand, that is the kind of thing that's going to cause a child to.You know, stress and anxiety and confusion, much more so thanknowing that something's happened, but it's okay, and your parents are dealingwith it, and, you know, I just think sometimes parents can hide behind the ideaof wanting to protect the children from something, whereas actually they'retrying to protect themselves because they haven't quite seen dealt with theirown shame, you know, about a relationship breaking down or, or about having hadan extramarital affair or something.And I think, honestly, I think it can be a little bit selfish.And I think that you can think that you're doing the right thing for the child,but actually you're just, um, doing the right thing for you. I completely agreewith that, and I think it extends as well to what the parenting relationship [00:24:00] looks like moving forward from that pointas well, and making sure that it is what is going to work best for your family,and particularly for your child, you know, often people come up with plans becausethey are plans that they think It's what they should be doing.Like, for example, still trying to get together every Sunday tohave a meal together as a family. Well, if you can do that, and that's going tobe comfortable, then absolutely. But if you're going to be sitting there reallytense, really awkward, there's going to be a lot of friction. Why are you doingit? Um, and so I think it's about sort of being honest with yourself as welland the situation that you're in and how raw things are feeling.And that might be something that changes over time and ineither direction. Yeah, small and frequent conversations rather than one bigconversation because it's certainly not something that is a one and done sortof thing. But is there an extra pressure then as a queer parent to do thingslike You know, be extra super friendly so that you're kind [00:25:00] of not sort of, as you were sayingearlier, Lottie, this idea that we've, we've fought quite hard to get to thispoint, so we can't then be seen to be just throwing it all away.But is that then a massive pressure? Because we always havethis debate, this co parenting and sometimes co parenting issue. Absolutely.just isn't possible and you have to parallel parent. Parallel parent is whereeffectively you've got two separate dictatorships. You know, you do my rules inmy house, in your other parent's house, you have their rules and they could bevery different.And then you've got co parenting, which is where we all agreeon a set of rules and we try and effectively have two homes and it's one, it'sone thing. So just, I wonder if there's that extra pressure. Because of thatpoint you made earlier, to be, you know, real happy, clappy co parents, whenactually, well, you might be having the bitterest of all divorces.And just because you're a queer parent doesn't mean you'regoing to necessarily be in the co parenting camp. So, is that a real thing? Isthere, do you think there is an extra pressure? I think [00:26:00] there definitely is, you know, a real sense ofperfectionism. We're still at the vanguard really of queer parenting and we'restill at this need to kind of prove that we deserve it, prove that we've earnedit, prove that we're good enough.But of course we are and it's a shame that we feel so Burdenedby this sense of having to be perfect parents because it is probably reallyhaving a negative impact and I think certainly in a divorce and separation likeit's going to be a real added pressure and I know some people like some queerparenting influencers actually who I follow on social media.have recently announced their separation. And I was imagining,I don't know them well, but I've followed their kind of content. And I wasimagining for them, my God, that's even more pressure because you've kind ofset yourself up as this, you know, figureheads, the face of queer parenting.And you've got like a public profile and you've, you know, been showing on yoursocial media, look how great we're [00:27:00]parenting can be and look at our happy family.Then to have to announce that. You know, it isn't easy and thatyou are separating. You must just feel a real added sense of havingdisappointed people, I think, which must be really hard. Yeah, and then, likeyou say, the pressure to behave absolutely perfectly through it, and nobodycan. I mean, it's just impossible.You know, we work in this every day. You, you can have all thebest intentions and that's brilliant, but sometimes it gets to you. You'regoing to be ratty and horrible. You're going to say the wrong thing to yourkids. You're going to shout at your partner. You're going to not put your bestfoot forward, and it's okay.And I just worry that this added pressure you've spoken aboutso eloquently just drives some of those negative feelings underground. Andactually, what we really need to do is create a space for people just to bethemselves and be real, rather than having to feel they've got to be the faceof, you know, like you say, you know, model parenting, just because, you know,you've come at it from a different perspective.So [00:28:00] that's my worryfor it. Like you say, that there's a lot of pressure on people at the momentbecause it's such a hard one, right. And because it's still at it's in itsearlier days of being accepted. Yeah. And what do you think then in terms ofblended families? Are, are there any real kind of additional challenges ifyou're a queer blended family than if you're a heteronormative blended family?Or is it all just blended family stuff and it's hard whicheverwhich way you do it because there are so many kids and so many schedules to tryand make a line? Well, I do think that if, um, and this was my experience ofspeaking to some people for the books, if the queer relationship has come aboutafter a heterosexual relationship and perhaps the children were born intoheterosexual parents and then, so someone I spoke to in the book came out as alesbian, You know, later in life when their child was 10 or 11, I think thatcan be an extra pressure, uh, or challenge in a blended family because [00:29:00] it's maybe a surprise to the left part.Yeah. The, the, maybe the, the whole family is also having tokind of reckon with the mother's sexuality. And so that's an additional layer.I think that. It happens within blended families, for sure. So there can beadded complexity depending on the individual circumstance. What, what's yourthoughts, Anthony, from a blended family perspective?Because you're part of a blended family, aren't you anyway?Albeit you're an adult now. Yeah, yeah. I think children generally are quiteresilient, but it's exactly that. It's, you know, no, Two blended families arethe same. And particularly with queer families, that's not necessarily as aresult of a separation or divorce.There can be, for example, a gay couple and a lesbian couplewho have always co parented children. And, you know, there may be separationbetween that. So you may end up with sort of four blended families and, youknow, end up with sort of eight, Parenting figures. So I think there's alwaysgoing to be, uh, [00:30:00] complexities, andit's about just working through that.But, but again, I think the advantage sometimes that we have isbecause We have always had to talk to our children about where they've comefrom and the different family structures and, and how that works. It's not acompletely new and fresh conversation and concept, um, the idea of a differentfamily structure.It's just a different one to what they're already used to. So Iguess it's, there could be extra layers of complexity, as you say, but there'salso some advantages from, because we've said before, haven't we, that there'sbeen a dialogue from a much earlier age, potentially. Communication might bebetter.People might be used to talking about things in a more open andinclusive way, I guess. It strikes me then that there are, you've got expertsall meriting in blended family queer parenting in the parents themselves, andto some extent in the kids themselves, then you've got [00:31:00]the people who are meant to help you sort all this stuff out.So the mediators, the divorce, we, I should say we, not they,we have got a bit of catching up to do then in terms of being especially openand aware of the different issues. What do you think, Lottie, that theprofession can do to be more inclusive, to be more aware and to be more able tosupport and help queer parents when they're going through divorce andseparation?I think one simple thing is language. I think Anthony alludedto this earlier, just being really aware of the language that you're using onall of your communications, on your website and emails, you know, notdefaulting to mum and dad, using imagery of different kinds of families in allof your marketing materials and websites and things.I think honestly that makes such a difference and it is quite asimple thing to do. I don't think It needs to be a big kind of event, you [00:32:00] know, making a service appealing to, toqueer parents or queer people. It's just, can be quite simple. So I think justlooking at the existing language you do have and making sure that all thepeople that work with you from receptionists to mediators to lawyers, you know,that everyone's on the same page with that language.And so that when queer people are coming. to you for a service.They're not feeling like they're having to come out over and over again todifferent people that they meet, might meet. So I think that would be a greatstarting point. And Anthony, this is your bag. What are your thoughts? Yeah.Yeah. When, when I'm speaking with people for the first time, I always makesure to never assume.So I will always refer to Their ex partner rather than an exhusband or an ex wife. You know, I'm not going to be making that assumption inthe same way as I would always refer to people as parents rather than mum ordad because [00:33:00] I don't know what, whatterminology works well for them, um, and what they use.Whereas I think, you know, a parent as a general term doesn'ttake away from anyone, but it can help. To ensure that people don't feel leftout or, or like Lottie said, that you're not having to come out to people atvarious steps along the way, particularly through a process like this, where itmay be that you're speaking to, you know, quite a few different services orsupport agencies for various things and you're not wanting to have thatconversation every single time.We're running out of time. So I just want to ask a finalquestion of you both. If there are queer parents listening and they want somekind of tips or help and advice, Anthony, what would you say at this stage? Tobe honest, I would say Lottie's book, The Queer Parent is a fantastic resource,really, really useful.But also just to seek that support and advice wherever you canand to try and have those conversations and have some conversations with. yourfriends and family about what, what [00:34:00]you're experiencing as well, rather than trying to manage everything yourself.And obviously that's something that we can assist with at Amicable too.And then Lottie, so kind of similar question to you, but if youhad to summarize from your book one of the sort of key pieces of advice youwould give to a queer parent going through a divorce or separation, what wouldyou say? Well, I would say that within our book, The Queer Parent, we've gotsome really specific advice for people who have separated after surrogacy atdifferent stages of surrogacy.We've got advice for people who are separating as fostercarers, which is a really interesting one. And also interestingly, uh, we'vespoken to a couple who have separated very amicably after one of the coparents. transitioned to become a trans woman or to be the trans woman that shealways was. And so that is some very specific advice and case studies aboutthat situation.So we also cover [00:35:00]step parenting, how to be a good step parent and also, yeah, relationshipswhere the children have been the product of a past heterosexual relationshipand then within a new queer relationship. the new partner is taking on a coparenting role. So every iteration of a blended family and separation I thinkis hopefully addressed in the book The Queer Parent.So yeah, check it out. Thank you. And I guess you agree thatit's better to try and communicate and to negotiate yourselves rather thandefault to having to go through lawyers to do this because the law at thispoint point is not especially helpful or clear on a lot of these cases. And soit's always better to try and keep the lines of communication open and to dothings in a more amicable way.So just to end then, Lottie, where can we, you've talked aboutthe book, do you want to give us another quick flash of the book and tell usthe name of where you can find it? Yeah, sure. So it's just, uh, it's going tobe out in paperback from May and you can get it on Amazon or, uh, all goodbookshops. [00:36:00] It's called The QueerParent, Everything You Need to Know from Gay to Z.And it's by myself and my lovely co writer, Stu Oakley, who isan adoptive dad to three beautiful children. So please, yeah, find it whereveryou like to put it. Buy your books from. Thank you. And Anthony, if people arelistening and they want to speak to Amicable about drawing up a separationagreement or divorcing and separating, anything like that, we offer free 50minute phone calls, don't we?Where can people find the Amicable help? Find out more about uson our website, amicable. co. uk and also on social media as well. And you canhear about new podcast episodes by subscribing for updates and visitingthedivorcepodcast. com. Or on your favorite listening platform. Don't forgetfor separation and co parenting support you can visit amicable.co.uk where you can explore our free resources. Thankseverybody for [00:37:00] listening.‍ --- ## Episode 109 — How to forgive after divorce with the founder of Self Space Published: 2024-05-15 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-109-forgiveness-with-founder-of-self-space-jodie-cariss > In this episode, Kate is joined by Jodie Cariss, Founder of the online therapy platform Self Space to discuss the emotional journey of separation and the role of forgiveness in the healing process. In this episode, Kate is joined by Jodie Cariss, Founder of the online therapy platform [Self Space](https://theselfspace.com/) to discuss the emotional journey of separation and the role of forgiveness in the healing process. **About the episode:** Kate and Jodie begin this episode by discussing Jodie’s background, and how she got into her profession and ended up founding Self Space, including Jodie’s individual experience with divorce. Throughout the episode, they discuss topics such as forgiveness, moving past and overcoming resentment, and replacing it with compassion, especially when it comes to co-parenting. **Meet our guests:** Jodie is a therapist with over twenty years of experience in the field and a Tavistock-trained executive coach. Jodie has fast become a leading voice advocating for accessible mental health support. Jodie is the co-author of ['How to Grow Through What You Go Through',](https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/444570/how-to-grow-through-what-you-go-through-by-marshall-jodie-cariss-and-chance/9781785043680) published by Penguin in 2022, and regularly contributes to panel talks, podcasts and media titles such as Stylist Magazine, Cosmopolitan, Vogue and The Times.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 108 — The role of grandparents in divorced and separated families Published: 2024-05-01 · Duration: 32 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-108-the-role-of-grandparents-during-parental-separation-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Founder of the Bristol Grandparents Support Group, Jane Jackson, and amicable Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to discuss grandparents, co-parenting and separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by Founder of the Bristol Grandparents Support Group, Jane Jackson, and amicable Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to discuss role of grandparents during parental separation and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate, Jane and Anthony touch on a variety of topics including what can happen during an acrimonious separation, especially how grandparents can lose touch with their grandchildren, as well as the rights they may have and the more amicable ways of regaining contact. This episode is full of tips and highlights the importance of putting the children first, as well as the value grandparents can bring to children’s upbringing.  **About our guests:** Jane founded the [Bristol Grandparents Support Group](https://bristolgrandparentssupportgroup.co.uk/) in 2007 when she lost contact with her granddaughter due to her sons’ divorce. The support group aims to inform people of the issues surrounding Grandparents and their rights to see their Grandchildren when contact has been denied. Jane holds bi-monthly support groups remotely to help grandparents deal with estrangement, an issue affecting one in seven. Anthony is a Divorce Specialist at [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 10 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child and diverse and inclusive families. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 107 — Do feelings of loneliness in a relationship lead to separation? Published: 2024-04-17 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-107-loneliness-in-relationships-separation-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by former family barrister turned therapist and author, Charlotte Friedman. In this episode, Kate is joined by former family barrister turned therapist and author, [Charlotte Friedman](https://www.charlottefriedman.com/). **About the episode:** The focus of this episode is loneliness. Kate and Charlotte begin by exploring what loneliness is, whether it’s a physical or mental feeling or both, and how loneliness links to grief, as well as the emotional journey of divorce and separation. They discuss seeking professional help and how children and other family members can sense and react to loneliness. Finally, Charlotte and Kate discuss coping mechanisms for loneliness, especially post-separation. **About our guest:** Charlotte decided to move from the courtroom to the therapist’s chair to help people manage the emotional journey of divorce. In her book, [Breaking Upwards](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Upwards-manage-emotional-separation/dp/1780723466), Charlotte offers calm, therapeutic advice on everything from managing loneliness to letting go of grievance. Charlotte is a trained Psychodynamic Psychotherapist registered with the [British Psychoanalytic Council](https://www.bpc.org.uk/) and the [Tavistock Society](https://tavistockandportman.ac.uk/alumni/tavistock-society-of-psychotherapists/). She is also the founder of the [Divorce Support Group](https://divorcesupportgroup.co.uk/about-us/) which has provided a community for people trying to manage the emotional impact of divorce and separation. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 106 — A Child’s Right to Matter with Angharad Rudkin and Helen Adam Published: 2024-04-03 · Duration: 45 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-106-a-childs-right-to-matter-with-helen-adam-and-dr-angharad-rudkin > In this episode, Kate is joined by clinical psychologist, Angharad Rudkin, and solicitor, mediator, and campaigner Helen Adam. In this episode, Kate is joined by clinical psychologist, Angharad Rudkin, and solicitor, mediator, and campaigner Helen Adam.  **About the episode:** ** ** Kate and Helen begin the episode by discussing the Family Solutions Group (FSG) and explaining the [Right to Matter](https://www.familysolutionsgroup.co.uk/a-childs-right-to-matter-2/) report. They move on to discuss who in Government currently takes responsibility for children when parents separate. Helen explores some of the consultations' findings as well as the common questions that emerged from the UK Youth Parliament. Later on in the episode, Kate and Angharad discuss how children and families are impacted during parental separation, whether divorce or separation impacts children’s mental health and to what extent. Also, they explore what this can look like day-to-day and what the key factors are that lead to significant impact. Finally, Helen and Adam give their recommendations for further help and advice and the next steps for future reports and actions on the level of government. **About our guests:** Helen Adam started her work with separating families as a solicitor in London. Following a career break, she retrained as a mediator and founded Wells Family Mediation. Helen is also chair of the [Family Solutions Group](https://www.familysolutionsgroup.co.uk/) (FSG). The FSG presses for coordinated political oversight and funding for separated families. We’ve previously recorded an episode on language with Helen, so make sure to [have a listen](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-63-how-language-can-impact-divorce-and-separation).  Dr Angharad Rudkin is a clinical psychologist with over 20 years experience of working with children and families to discuss divorce and separation from the perspective of children. Angharad is also an expert for the Metro's relationship column, offers training and consultation for family lawyers and worked as a lecturer on the Clinical Psychology doctorate at the University of Southampton for 12 years. Angharad was a consulting editor for [‘101 Questions Answered about Separating with Children’](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Questions-Answered-About-Separating-Children/dp/1916431518) and has recently published a book for children on how to cope with their parent’s divorce, [The Split Survival Kit](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Split-Survival-Kit-Parents-Separation-ebook/dp/B08WBVZ4ZZ), written with children’s author Ruth Fitzgerald. We’ve also recorded an episode with Angharad in the past which is [number 57](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-57-divorce-and-separation-from-the-childs-perspective) if you would like to have a listen. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 105 — The developmental stages of children - a co-parent's perspective Published: 2024-03-18 · Duration: 45 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-105-co-parenting-at-different-ages-and-stages > In this episode, Kate is joined by clinical therapist and manager, Julie Cooper, to discuss the reality of co-parenting across the varying stages of childhood. In this episode, Kate is joined by clinical therapist and manager, Julie Cooper, to discuss the reality of co-parenting across the varying stages of childhood. **About the episode:** Throughout this episode, Kate and Julie move through the different stages of childhood, highlighting the most important considerations when moving into a co-parenting family structure. They look at separating when children are babies, toddlers, young children, teenagers and finally, children as they grow up and the signs and changes you may have to look out for, as well as signposting the available help. **About our guests:** Julie is a lead provider of mental health services at [Honey for Moms](https://www.honeyformoms.com/), in Ferndale, Michigan. She is a Co-parenting specialist and single mum of two and has dedicated her career to helping parents throughout their co-parenting journey. As a mother moving through divorce, Julie’s personal experience of co-parenting highlighted the need for a stronger support system, clearer information and dependable resources. Her journey along this path drove her to believe that, regardless of marital status, raising secure children who feel seen, heard, and loved by both parents, is possible with the right tools and support. Julie's tenured work in mental health has led her to become a strong clinician, leader, and advocate for mental health. She also has a passion for helping individuals with trauma, anxiety, depression, and low self-worth. As team lead in her practice, Julie is deeply committed to providing professional guidance and furthering education in this field. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 104 — Navigating divorce and new partners with Professor Lisa Doodson Published: 2024-03-06 · Duration: 46 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-104-introducing-a-new-partner-after-divorce-or-separation > In this episode, Kate was joined by Professor Lisa Doodson and Rebecca Jones from amicable to discuss introducing new partners and navigating blended families. In this episode, Kate was joined by Professor Lisa Doodson and Rebecca Jones from [amicable ](https://amicable.co.uk/)to discuss introducing new partners and navigating blended families. **About the episode:** This episode is full of tips about introducing new partners and general advice on blended families. We look at some of the unique challenges that each presents, as well as the potential benefits of growing up in a blended family. Lisa provides insightful advice about coping with different parenting styles, as well as tips on establishing house rules. Bec gives many tips on practical things families can do to make the journey smoother, based on her experience. This episode is a real homage to the idea that families come in all shapes and sizes and there's no ‘right’ way to parent your kids, highlighting the fact that respect and communication are the foundations for a happy blended family. **About our guests:** Lisa is a chartered psychologist and founder of [HappySteps](https://happysteps.co.uk/), a consultancy providing training and advice to professionals and families directly. As an expert in the field, Lisa frequently contributes to TV documentaries and comments in the press. Rebecca, or Bec, is a divorce specialist at amicable and was previously a family solicitor. Bec has also been through her own divorce and now has a blended family. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 103 — What is codependency in relationships? with Mark Groves Published: 2024-02-21 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-103-co-dependency-with-mark-groves > In this episode, Kate was joined by Mark Groves, a Human Connection Specialist and founder of 'Create the Love', to discuss codependency in relationships, separation and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Mark Groves, a Human Connection Specialist and founder of ['Create the Love'](https://createthelove.com/), to discuss codependency in relationships, separation and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Mark begin the episode by exploring how codependency can manifest in romantic and other personal relationships. They look at the link between codependency and addiction, as well as whether a codependent relationship can ever be healthy. During the episode, they talk about ending a codependent relationship and how fear is a driver for couples staying together in unhealthy and unhappy relationships. Finally, Mark and Kate end the episode by discussing the role of boundaries in healing co-dependency and co-parenting. **About our guests:** Mark's separation from his ex-partner sparked his journey to turn his experiences into an impactful message. Mark founded Create The Love, a platform that guides people to design the life and love they long for, following on from rock bottom when his relationship ended. He hosts [The Mark Groves Podcast](https://markgroves.com/podcast/) and has a significant following on social media where he shares his insight into relationships. Today, Mark is a human connection specialist, speaker, writer, motivator, creator, connector and collaborator. As a bridge between the academic and the human, Mark invites people to explore the good, bad, downright ugly, and beautiful sides of connection. Mark is a friend of the podcast and this is his second appearance; you can check out Mark's previous episode [here](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-61-self-growth-and-healing-following-breakups-separation-and-divorce-with-mark-groves-from-create-the-love). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 102 — What happens in family court proceedings? with Louise Neville Published: 2024-02-14 · Duration: 44 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-102-surviving-the-family-courts-with-louise-neville-share-episode-stats-edit-episode > In this episode, Kate is joined by founder and Master Divorce Coach, Louise Neville, to discuss surviving the family court. In this episode, Kate is joined by founder and Master Divorce Coach, Louise Neville, to discuss surviving the family court.  **About the episode:** Kate and Louise begin this episode by exploring what we mean by the family court. Louise explains how she ended up there after separating from her husband over unresolved financial and child arrangement issues. This episode is focused on helping people navigate the family court when they have no other choice. Louise’s detailed explanation of the process for Children Act proceedings is useful in understanding what’s involved if you end up in a dispute when you separate. **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including poor mental health and abuse. **Organisations who can help:** - **[Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/)** - **[Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)** - **[Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/)** - mental health charity - **[Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)**- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - **[YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger)** – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help **[here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469)** **About our guests:** Louise founded the company [Family Court Survival](https://familycourtsurvival.co.uk/) and supports people emotionally, practically and strategically through the Family Court System In England and Wales. She is a Master Divorce Coach and Professional McKenzie Friend who works in children’s welfare and is at the forefront of everything she does. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 101 — My divorce story and co-parenting journey with Ella Kenion Published: 2024-01-24 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/divorce-tales-and-co-parenting-with-actress-ella-kenion > In this episode, Kate was joined Ella Kenion to talk about her experience of divorce and co-parenting. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Ella Kenion](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0447785/) to talk about her experience of divorce and co-parenting. **About the episode:** Ella spoke candidly about her two divorces, the first being the pinnacle of ‘amicable’ and the second being far from it. They also explore her co-parenting journey.  **About our guests:** Ella has enjoyed a long and varied career as an actress, working successfully across both stage and screen for many years., with highlights including the BBC’s The Outlaws, Doctors, and The Detectorists, ITV’s Midsomer Murders and the feature film The Night before Christmas.  Television credits include: Beyond Paradise (BritBox), So Awkward: Kids Camp (BBC), The Outlaws (BBC), Honour (ITV), The Barking Murders (ITV), The Duchess (Netflix), Shakespeare & Hathaway (BBC), Doctors (BBC), Pure (Channel 4), Warren (BBC), Kiss of Death (Discovery), Midsomer Murders (ITV), The Detectorists (BBC), Episodes (Showtime), Swashbuckle (CBBC), New Tricks (BBC), Justin's House (CBBC), Big Bad World (Comedy Central), Law & Order UK (Kudos), Cuckoo (BBC), Heading Out (BBC), Hollyoaks (Channel 4), Doctor Who (BBC), Fun Police (Channel 4), Gates (Sky), Criminal Justice (BBC), Gayle Tuesday: The Comeback (Living TV), Holby City (BBC).  Theatre credits include: Dusty (Theatre Royal Bath), Ghosting the Party (NT Company), Emil & The Detectives (National Theatre), The School for Scandal (The Comedians Theatre Company), Shooting Star (Chester Gateway Theatre), Private Lives (Watford Palace Theatre), Gift of the Gorgon (Royal Shakespeare Company)  Film credits include: The Offenders (Big Talk), The Knight Before Christmas (HP Christmas Knight Productions), Stan & Ollie (Fable Pictures).  TW: This episode mentions abusive behaviour. Some listeners may find the information and topics discussed distressing.  Useful links/ charities: - **[Surviving Economic Abuse](https://survivingeconomicabuse.org/)** - **[Dash](https://www.dashriskchecklist.co.uk/)** - **[Refuge](https://refuge.org.uk/)** - **[Men's Advice Line](https://mensadviceline.org.uk/)** **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 100 — The best moments from The Divorce Podcast Published: 2024-01-10 · Duration: 39 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-100-the-best-bits-from-the-divorce-podcast > To celebrate this special occasion, we're taking a trip down memory lane and bringing you the absolute best bits from our most impactful and insightful episodes. To celebrate this special occasion, we're taking a trip down memory lane and bringing you the best bits from our most impactful and insightful episodes.  **About the episode:** Tune in as we delve into various topics including the emotional journey, co-parenting and finances in divorce. We'll touch on finding your inner strength, co-parenting with grace, rebuilding your life, and embracing personal growth. Our guests will share their expertise, stories, and advice, creating a space for understanding and support. **About our guests:** [Jessica Fostekew](https://www.instagram.com/jessicafostekew/?hl=en): comedian, actor and writer In 2019, Jess was nominated for The Dave Edinburgh Comedy Award ‘Best Show’ for her show [Wench](https://sohotheatre.com/events/jessica-fostekew-wench/#:~:text=Jess%20was%20nominated%20for%20the,in%20the%20Chortle%20Awards%202020.). She's the co-writer and co-star of the forthcoming Sky special 'Real Friends' and her series ['Sturdy Girl Club'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001kh5m) is now on BBC Sounds. [Ed Bassett:](https://bluemindapproach.com/about/) well-being entrepreneur, Dad, and rugby fan Father of two, Ed is involved in several not-for-profit companies, an Ambassador for Staffordshire, a start-up mentor and a passionate believer in finding your voice and speaking your truth. [The Midlife Mentors](https://themidlifementors.com/), Claire and James Davis Claire and James Davis are the husband-and-wife team behind the multi-award-winning well-being company [38 Degrees North](https://thirtyeightdegreesnorth.com/) and the thriving midlife coaching business, The Midlife Mentors. [Dr Angharad Rudkin](https://www.southampton.ac.uk/psychology/about/staff/ar2r07.page): clinical psychologist Dr Angharad Rudkin a clinical psychologist with over 20 years experience of working with children and families to discuss divorce from the perspective of children.  Marcie Shaoul: Director of [The Co-Parent Way](https://thecoparentway.com/) Marcie is the Director of The Co-Parent Way, the UK’s only Co-Parent Coaching Practice. She is responsible for developing a unique coaching methodology that enables parents to co-parent together effectively after separation. [Christina McGhee](https://divorceandchildren.com/about-christina-mcghee/): internationally recognised divorce parenting expert With over 25 years of experience, Christina has been featured across television, radio and podcasts including The Times, Channel 4 and the BBC. [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/): financial planner Louise has worked in the financial services sector for over 30 years and is a Certified Financial Planner and a Chartered Wealth Manager. Daniel Copley: consumer expert at [Zoopla](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/) Dan is an editor with over 10 years of experience in the property, lifestyle and fashion sectors. Shreepali Chauhan-Tufail: Divorce Specialist at [amicable](https://amicable.io/) Shreepali is a former Solicitor with over 20 years of experience in Dispute Resolution, Family and Commercial law. [Joshua Rozenberg](https://rozenberg.substack.com/): the UK’s most experienced legal commentator Joshua Rozenberg KC (hon) is Britain's most experienced full-time legal commentator. He is the only journalist to have been appointed as Queen's Counsel honoris causa. [David Hodson](https://www.davidhodson.com/): solicitor, mediator, arbitrator [Prof David Hodson](https://www.davidhodson.com/) OBE KC(Hons) MCIArb is a co-founder partner of [The International Family Law Group](https://iflg.uk.com/), which works with international families. --- ## Episode 99 — Boundaries and expectations in relationships and after divorce Published: 2023-12-27 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-99-boundaries-relationships-and-separation-with-dr-charlotte-fox-weber > In this episode, Kate was joined by Dr. Charlotte Fox Weber to talk about boundaries, relationships, and separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Dr. Charlotte Fox Weber](https://www.instagram.com/charlottefoxweberpsychotherapy/) to talk about boundaries, relationships, and separation. **About the episode:** This episode focuses on what we mean by boundaries and explores how we can use them in the context of relationships, separation, and divorce.  ** About our guests:** [Charlotte ](https://www.regents.ac.uk/charlotte-fox-weber)is a psychotherapist and writer. She co-founded ‘Examined Life’ and is the founding head of ‘The School of Life Psychotherapy’. She grew up in Connecticut and Paris and now lives in London with her husband and two young children and ‘[Tell Me What You Want](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-What-You-Want-Therapist/dp/1982170662)’ is her first book. She's writing her second book about why we hold onto hurtful relationships. She is registered and accredited by the UK Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP) and a registered member of the [British Association of Counselling & Psychotherapy](https://www.bacp.co.uk/) (MBACP).  Charlotte founded [The School of Life Psychotherapy ](https://www.theschooloflife.com/product/psychotherapy/)in 2015, and now works in private practice. She is also a trustee on the board of the Josef and Anni Albers Foundation and works with Le Korsa, running educational programs with women in Senegal.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 98 — How to be a happy single parent with the Founders of Frolo Published: 2023-12-13 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-98-how-to-be-a-happy-single-parent-with-frolo > In this episode, Kate was joined by Zoë Desmond and Rebecca Cox to talk about their brand new book ‘How to be a happy single parent’. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Zoë Desmond](https://www.instagram.com/zochild_/) and [Rebecca Cox ](https://www.instagram.com/singlemotheredit/?hl=en-gb)to talk about their brand new book ‘[How to be a happy single parent](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Be-Happy-Single-Parent/dp/0349436010)’.  **About the episode:** They start the episode by talking about why Zoë created [Frolo ](https://www.frolo.com/)and how she got to know Rebecca in the process. Zoë and Rebecca discuss their stories of becoming single parents and the challenges associated with raising children on your own. They explore their new book as well as some of the chapters, including those that focus on boundaries, the emotional side, and what it means to be a single parent **About our guests:** Rebecca Cox is a single mother and founder of [The Single Mother Edit](https://www.instagram.com/singlemotheredit/?hl=en-gb). She is a journalist whose writing has been published by Elle, Glamour, Country & Town House, Vogue.com and more. Her pieces on single motherhood have been featured in publications, including The Evening Standard, Grazia and Harper's Bazaar. Zoë Desmond is a single mum and the Founder of Frolo, the award-winning app and community for single parents. Both Zoe and Rebecca are the author’s of the brand new book, ‘How to be a happy single parent’. You can buy a copy of ‘[How to be a happy single parent](https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Be-Happy-Single-Parent/dp/0349436010)’ by clicking on the link.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 97 — When help with divorce is the right option with Nichole Farrow Published: 2023-11-29 · Duration: 45 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-97-choosing-professional-help-for-divorce-with-nichole-farrow > In this episode, Kate is joined by Relationship & Family Coach, Nichole Farrow to discuss professional help during a separation or divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by Relationship & Family Coach, [Nichole Farrow](https://www.nicholefarrow.com/) to discuss professional help during a separation or divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Nichole look at the different professionals who can help you navigate a separation. They discuss the various organisations and charities in this space as well as which parts of the process you can do yourself. Nichole explains how to access support, and where to find free information and low-cost options to help if you're on a budget. **About our guests:** [Nichole Farrow](https://www.nicholefarrow.com/) is a relationship and family coach. Her distinctive blueprint for fostering thriving relationships and families is shaped by her own journey, as well as a profound grasp of human psychology and relationship dynamics. She is an expert in guiding complex family dynamics and divorce cases to a harmonious outcome. Nichole is a certified Robbins Madanes coach, NLP practitioner, and Resolution member, so she is well-placed in guiding complex family and divorce matters to a harmonious outcome. She is one of the UK's leading mindset coaches, specialising in supporting divorcing parents and blended families, and is regularly featured across the media, with a monthly slot on BBC Radio 5 Live. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 96 — What is emotional freedom technique? with Liz Harrington Published: 2023-11-15 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-96-eft-coaching-with-liz-hancock > In this episode, Kate is joined by Liz Hancock to discuss EFT coaching and how it can help in the context of divorce or separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Liz Harrington](https://www.lizhancock.org/aboutme.html) to discuss EFT coaching and how it can help in the context of divorce or separation. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Liz explore what EFT is and how it can help separating couples navigate their divorce and negotiate through the emotional trauma which a divorce or separation can cause. **About our guests:** Liz has over 10 years of experience as an [EFT Coach](https://www.theeftcoach.com/). EFT coaching is one of the therapeutic ways you can manage the emotional journey of a divorce or separation.  Liz chose to specialise in the divorce and financial space following her own divorce, which started off amicable but then went on to be very toxic with threats over finances which affected not just her, but her children too. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 95 — Rebuilding confidence after divorce with The Midlife Mentors Published: 2023-11-01 · Duration: 41 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-95-building-self-confidence-post-separation > In this episode, Kate is joined by The Midlife Mentors, Claire and James Davis, to discuss building self-confidence post-separation & divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by [The Midlife Mentors](https://themidlifementors.com/), Claire and James Davis, to discuss building self-confidence post-separation & divorce. **About the episode:** Kate, Claire and James begin the episode by discussing their own journeys and how it led to the creation of 'The Midlife Mentors', as well as '38 Degrees North'. They discuss building self-confidence after a divorce or separation, nutrition and its impact on confidence, the role of friends and family and much more. **About our guests:** Claire and James Davis are the husband-and-wife team behind the multi-award-winning wellbeing company [38 Degrees North](https://thirtyeightdegreesnorth.com/) and the thriving midlife coaching business, The Midlife Mentors. The couple have a successful midlife health podcast; [The Midlife](https://themidlifementors.com/podcast-2/) and their passion is helping ‘midlifers’ achieve the body, mind, and lifestyle they deserve. Using their backgrounds and qualifications in psychology, coaching, hormones, nutrition, personal training, stress management, menopause and NLP, their evidence-based approach empowers individuals with the practical tools and knowledge they need to make positive lifestyle changes. Claire & James are incredibly passionate about offering an anti-fad approach to the health and wellness narrative. You’ll find no fancy diets or pseudo-science - just authentic, balanced information based on years of professional and personal experience. They also work with corporations providing coaching and wellness programmes for individuals and teams and are regular media commentators. They have featured in The New York Times, The Daily Telegraph, The Sunday Times, The Observer, The Daily Mail, Conde Nast Traveller, The Evening Standard and more. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 94 — Exploring divorce in the workplace: support through separation Published: 2023-10-18 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-94-separation-in-the-workplace-with-tesco-oneplusone-and-the-positive-parenting-alliance > In this episode, Kate is joined by Mustafa Faruqi from Tesco, James Hayhurst, founder of The Positive Parenting Alliance and The Parents Promise and Jimi Odel from OneplusOne to discuss separation and the workplace. In this episode, Kate is joined by Mustafa Faruqi from Tesco, James Hayhurst, founder of The Positive Parenting Alliance and The Parents Promise and Jimi Odel from OneplusOne to discuss separation and the workplace. **About the episode:** Kate, Mustafa, James, and Jimi begin by looking at what employers can do to support their employees during a separation, especially in the wake of the movement to ‘bring your whole self to work’. Jimi and Mustafa touch on how employees can tell work about a separation and how managers can navigate these conversations. They explore the different policies and practices that might be in place, as well as how employers can create a culture that opens communication about life events which may impact work performance or work patterns. This is a brilliant episode for those going through a separation and people more generally, as it gives great tips about talking to and supporting colleagues. You can find OnePlusOne's tips for employers and the OLPAC approach by following [this link](https://www.oneplusone.org.uk/what-we-offer/relationship-conversations). For more information and to sign up for and download The Parents Promise HR initiative resources, [click here](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/hr-initiative). **About our guests:** [Mustafa Faruqi](https://uk.linkedin.com/in/mustafa-faruqi) is Head of Reward and Workplace Relations at [Tesco](https://www.tesco.com/). Tesco, a leading multinational retailer with over 330,000 employees, is among the major employers committed to a new initiative to support staff going through separation. Before this, he worked for several prominent companies in the private and public sectors, including British Airways, Heathrow Airport and Network Rail. His career in human resources has specialised in negotiating with trade unions, implementing workplace change, developing HR policies and managing employee casework, including employment tribunals. [Jimi Odell ](https://www.oneplusone.org.uk/about/the-team)is the content manager at [OnePlusOne](https://www.oneplusone.org.uk/), a relationship support charity with more than fifty years of experience in creating evidence-based early intervention resources to help people build and maintain healthy relationships.  [James Hayhurst](https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jameshayhurst1) is the founder of The Positive Parenting Alliance and creator of [The Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/). He set up The Positive Parenting Alliance, having seen up close the many issues in the family courts and the scale and numbers of children affected. In May 2021, the Parents Promise was launched after many conversations with like-minded people and organisations.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 93 — Navigating divorce and property with Daniel Copley from Zoopla Published: 2023-10-04 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-93-property-and-divorce-with-zoopla > In this episode, Kate is joined by Daniel Copley from Zoopla and Shreepali Chauhan-Tufail from amicable to talk about property and divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by Daniel Copley from [Zoopla ](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/)and Shreepali Chauhan-Tufail from [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)to talk about property and divorce. **About the episode:** Throughout the episode, Kate, Dan and Shreepali cover a wide range of topics including living together post-separation; how to value property for divorce; how to obtain financial protection; and alternative living arrangements post-divorce. **About our guests:** [Zoopla](https://www.zoopla.co.uk/) is a property portal website and app and Daniel (Dan) is a consumer expert at Zoopla. Dan is an editor with over 10 years of experience in the property, lifestyle and fashion sectors. Having worked for brands such as M&S and Uber – and contributed to publications such as The Telegraph and GQ – Daniel champions readers’ interests in various subject areas.  Shreepali is a Divorce Specialist at amicable helping couples navigate the emotional and legal aspects of relationship breakdown. Shreepali is a former Solicitor with over 20 years of experience in Dispute Resolution, Family and Commercial law. Her personable approach enables her to work empathetically applying emotional support with a balanced style allowing couples to separate in a fairer, kinder more amicable way **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 92 — Should assets be split 50/50 in a divorce? with Joshua Rozenberg Published: 2023-09-18 · Duration: 45 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-92-is-50-50-fair-fairness-finances-and-divorce-with-joshua-rozenberg-and-david-hodson > In this episode, Kate is joined by Joshua Rozenberg and David Hodson to discuss whether 50/50 is a fair way to divide money and property during a divorce or separation. In this episode, Kate is joined by Joshua Rozenberg and David Hodson to discuss whether 50/50 is a fair way to divide money and property during a divorce or separation.  **About the episode:** In April 2023, the[ Law Commission of England and Wales](https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/) launched a [review ](https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/review-to-examine-50-year-old-laws-on-finances-after-divorce-and-the-ending-of-a-civil-partnership/)of the laws determining how finances are divided between couples when they divorce or end a civil partnership. Kate, Joshua and David explore ‘fairness’ and whether 50/50 is consistently fair in the Law Commission's Review of rules around how money and property should be divided. They look at the current law and the potential reforms being considered. They discuss the 'sharing principle', whether 50/50 should be the default for how finances are divided between couples and how the court deals with 'needs' cases. **About our guests:** [Joshua Rozenberg](https://rozenberg.substack.com/) KC (hon) is Britain's most experienced full-time legal commentator. He is the only journalist to have been appointed as Queen's Counsel honoris causa. He is an honorary Master of the Bench of Gray's Inn and a non-executive board member of the Law Commission. His most recent book is [Enemies of the People?](https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/enemies-of-the-people) How Judges Shape Society. After taking a law degree at Oxford, he trained as a solicitor, qualifying in 1976. Since 2008, he has written for the Law Society Gazette, the Guardian and The Critic magazine. Joshua was the BBC's legal correspondent for 15 years before moving in 2000 to The Daily Telegraph. After resigning as legal editor in the summer of 2007 he continued to write a weekly column until the end of 2008. Joshua returned to the BBC in 2010 to present the Radio 4 series Law in Action. In 2012, he was included by The Times in its independently-judged list of the UK's 100 most influential lawyers, the only journalist to feature. Joshua is known for his independence, authority, and ability to explain complicated legal issues with simplicity, clarity, and wit. He appears regularly on Sky News, BBC and other news networks worldwide. [Prof David Hodson](https://www.davidhodson.com/) OBE KC(Hons) MCIArb is a co-founder partner of [The International Family Law Group](https://iflg.uk.com/), which works with international families and their children. He is an English solicitor, mediator, arbitrator, Australian (NSW) solicitor and a deputy (part-time) family court judge at the Central Family Court in London and Western Circuit. He is a member of the English Law Society Family Law Committee, a Fellow of the International Academy of Family Lawyers, a member of LawAsia, the Family Law Section of the Law Council of Australia and a similar contributor to many family law organisations worldwide. He was awarded the OBE for services to international family law. He was appointed the (now) KC (Hons) in March 2022 by virtue of making a significant impact on the law of England and Wales. He is the editor and primary author of the LexisNexis textbook ‘The International Family Law Practice’ (6th ed). He is a Visiting Professor at the University of Law and an Honorary Professor of Law at Leicester University. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable --- ## Episode 91 — Parenting apart with divorce parenting expert, Christina McGhee Published: 2023-09-06 · Duration: 44 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-91-parenting-apart-with-christina-mcghee > In this episode, Kate is joined by Christina McGhee, an internationally recognised divorce parenting expert, speaker, and author. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Christina McGhee](https://divorceandchildren.com/about-christina-mcghee/), an internationally recognised divorce parenting expert, speaker, and author. **About the episode:** Kate begins this episode by exploring the emotional journey of children when their parents separate. Christina explains how emotions may vary between children and when to seek professional help, particularly with sadness and anger. They discuss how to talk to children about separation and the importance of using the word ‘divorce’. Christina gives some great tips on how to reply to questions your children might have, especially when you're not sure how to respond. **About our guests:** With over 25 years of experience, [Christina McGhee](https://divorceandchildren.com/about-christina-mcghee/) has been featured across television, radio and podcasts including The Times, Channel 4 and the BBC.  Christina's core principles provide valuable guidance to navigate the challenges of parenting apart, irrespective of the level of amicability between the parents involved.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 90 — What is child maintenance and how is it calculated? Published: 2023-08-23 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-90-child-maintenance-with-gingerbread > In this episode, Kate is joined by Jack Gillis from the single-parent charity, Gingerbread, to discuss child maintenance. In this episode, Kate is joined by Jack Gillis from the single-parent charity, [Gingerbread](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/), to discuss child maintenance. **About the episode:** Kate and Jack begin the episode by looking at the basics of child maintenance, including what it is and when you might be expected to pay. Jack explains the difference between private arrangements and going through the child maintenance service, or CMS. They explore the pros and cons of private arrangements and the enforcement powers of the CMS if you’re the receiving parent and you aren’t being paid. They also touch on the benefits available for single parents and how to renegotiate arrangements if circumstances change, such as a one parent losing a job. **About our guests:** Jack is the Advice Service Manager at [Gingerbread](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/) and is responsible for the single parents’ helpline and webchat service.** **Gingerbread has supported and championed single parents since 1918. They’ve changed laws, influenced government and challenged stigma and stereotypes. Their expert advice and information help tens of thousands of single parents every year.  Gingerbread has a wealth of knowledge on child maintenance so remember to get in touch with them if you need more support.  **How to contact Gingerbread:** - Gingerbread's helpline - **[0808 802 0925](tel:08088020925)** - **[Gingerbread website](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/)** - **[Advice and support services](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/advice_and_support_for_single_parents/)** **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s **3 months** of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) **for free**! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter **PODCAST**, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 89 — Marital intimacy with sex and relationship therapist, Ian Kerner Published: 2023-08-09 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-89-sex-and-relationships-with-ian-kerner > In this episode, Kate is joined by sex and relationship therapist, Ian Kerner, to discuss marital intimacy. In this episode, Kate is joined by sex and relationship therapist, Ian Kerner, to discuss marital intimacy. **About the episode:** **Please be aware that this episode contains sexual references** so you might want to listen out of earshot of any children Kate and Ian kick the episode off by discussing common problems which long-term couples tend to struggle with when it comes to sex. Later, they delve into various topics including intimacy issues, loss of attraction and practical tips to help relight that flame and get your physical relationship back on track. **About our guests:** [Ian Kerner](https://www.iankerner.com/about.php) (PhD, LMFT) is a licensed psychotherapist and nationally recognized sex therapist who works with individuals and couples on a range of relational issues that often lead to distress. Ian is regularly quoted as an expert in various media, with recent features in The New York Times, The Economist and NPR amongst others. Ian contributes regularly on the topic of relationships for CNN. He lectures frequently, with recent presentations for the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium, the Ackerman Institute, Tony Robbins, Goop, and TED 2021. Ian is the New York Times best-selling author of [She Comes First](https://www.amazon.co.uk/She-Comes-First-Thinking-Pleasuring/dp/0285637223) (Harper Collins) which has been translated into more than a dozen languages, as well as the recently published [So Tell Me About the Last Time You Had Sex](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tell-About-Last-Time-You/dp/191334875X) (Grand Central). In addition to being a Clinical Fellow of the American Association of Marriage and Family Therapists (AAMFT), Ian is certified by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors and Therapists and is also a member of the American Family Therapy Academy (AFTA). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 88 — How to help a friend going through a divorce with Verity Glasgow Published: 2023-07-26 · Duration: 32 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-88-how-to-help-a-friend-or-family-member-going-through-a-separation > In this episode Kate was joined by Verity Glasgow, CEO of the relationship charity, Oneplusone to discuss friends and family in the context of relationship breakdown. In this episode [Kate ](https://amicable.io/kate-daly)was joined by Verity Glasgow, CEO of the relationship charity, [OnePlusOne](https://www.oneplusone.org.uk/) to discuss friends and family in the context of relationship breakdown.  **About the episode:** Kate and Verity begin this episode by touching on what happens when someone goes through a separation. They explore the role that friends and family play and the danger of misplaced advice. Kate and Verity discuss how others 'war stories' often lead to rash decision-making because of fear. With a lack of information in the public domain on how to help friends and family who are separating, they end this episode by looking at five things to keep in mind when talking to people about their separation, with the goal of helping people end relationships in a kinder and better way. **About our guests:** [OnePlusOne](https://www.oneplusone.org.uk/) has more than fifty years of experience in creating evidence-based early intervention resources to help people build and maintain healthy relationships. Verity is committed to the digital transformation of relationship support services and has been a driving force behind some of OnePlusOne’s most recent projects, including the rollout of digital conflict reduction interventions and securing government funding to develop a new app to support separating parents. This episode is aimed at friends and family of anyone separating or going through a divorce so please share this episode with your network as most of us know someone who is splitting up.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 87 — Adjusting to single life after divorce or separation Published: 2023-07-12 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-87-how-to-adjust-to-a-new-lifestyle-when-you-separate-from-your-partner > In this episode, Kate was joined by financial planner, Louise Oliver, and Divorce coach, Tosh Brittan, to discuss adjusting to a new lifestyle post-separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by financial planner, [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/), and Divorce coach, [Tosh Brittan](https://www.toshbrittan.com/), to discuss adjusting to a new lifestyle post-separation. **About the episode:** Fear of having to change their current lifestyle is one of the biggest blockers preventing people from ending unhappy or unhealthy relationships says Tosh. This episode is all about equipping people going through a separation with the financial and emotional tools they need to adjust to a new lifestyle and build positive futures apart. With Louise covering the financial and numbers side, and Tosh focussing on the emotional journey, this episode is full of tips and advice to help anyone going through a separation.  **About our guests:** [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/) has worked in the financial services sector for over 30 years and is a Certified Financial Planner and a Chartered Wealth Manager. Throughout her career, she has regularly featured as a financial expert in the media, including across the BBC, GMTV and local radio.  As well as being a divorce coach, [Tosh Brittan](https://www.toshbrittan.com/) is an inspirational speaker, thought changer and host of the Divorce Goddess podcast, supporting women and men to have a calmer, more confident and emotionally healing divorce experience. She’s been featured on the BBC, ITV, SKY, Radio 5 Live, and in publications such as Elle Magazine, Telegraph, Sunday Times and the FT.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 86 — Co-parenting success stories with comedian, Jessica Fostekew Published: 2023-06-28 · Duration: 41 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-86-separation-story-with-comedian-and-actor-jessica-fostekew > In this episode, Kate was joined by Jessica Fostekew - a comedian, actor and writer to discuss co-parenting success stories. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Jessica Fostekew](https://www.instagram.com/jessicafostekew/?hl=en) - a comedian, actor and writer to discuss co-parenting success stories. **About the episode:** This episode is all about Jess’s separation from her long-term partner. We explore her wonderful co-parenting journey, her sexual awakening in her 30s and her subsequent relationships. We also look at how her parents' divorce impacted her attitude towards her own separation. This episode, and Jess’s story overall, exemplifies how you can end a relationship in a kinder and better way, prioritising the emotional well-being of everyone involved. P.S. We're sorry there are a few moments where Jess's audio picks up traffic outside. **About our guests:** In 2019, Jess was nominated for The Dave Edinburgh Comedy Award ‘Best Show’ for her show [Wench](https://sohotheatre.com/events/jessica-fostekew-wench/#:~:text=Jess%20was%20nominated%20for%20the,in%20the%20Chortle%20Awards%202020.). She has appeared on Live at the Apollo, QI and C4's Travelman. She's the co-writer and co-star of the forthcoming Sky special 'Real Friends' and her series ['Sturdy Girl Club'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001kh5m) is out now on BBC Sounds. As an actor, she stars in Motherland and in Cuckoo both on BBC and Netflix and also in a new feature film called '[Scrapper](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8649252/)'. She hosts her own podcast [Hoovering](https://play.acast.com/s/hoovering), all about eating. Jess is also a regular co-host of the behemoth podcast [The Guilty Feminist](https://guiltyfeminist.com/). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 85 — Dealing with divorce guilt and shame through therapy Published: 2023-06-14 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-85-navigating-shame-and-guilt-during-a-divorce-with-paul-huntingford > In this episode, Kate was joined by Paul Huntingford to discuss how therapy helped him through his divorce journey. In this episode, Kate was joined by Paul Huntingford to discuss how therapy helped him through his divorce journey.  **About the episode:** They begin this episode by looking at how Paul’s separation impacted his mental health, when things went sour after the involvement of solicitors, ultimately leading to a complete breakdown in communication between Paul and his ex. Kate and Paul talk about the role that shame and guilt played in his separation and the trickiness of navigating the emotional journey. It's interesting to learn how Paul has used his divorce experience to help others move through their separation and deal with their emotional journeys. They finish the episode by looking at practical tips to help if you're going through a divorce or a breakup.  **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including poor mental health and abuse. **Organisations who can help:** - **[Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/)** - **[Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)** - **[Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/)** - mental health charity - **[Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)**- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - **[YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger)** – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help **[here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469)** **About our guests:** [Paul ](https://www.paulhuntingfordtherapy.com/)is an integrative therapist working in private practice. Paul is passionate about group work and increasing access to psychological support around divorce and separation. His own divorce experience led him to retrain as a therapist having previously worked in sports and healthcare settings. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 84 — Family law arbitration - what is it and how does it work? Published: 2023-05-31 · Duration: 34 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-84-what-is-family-arbitration-and-how-does-it-work > In this episode, Kate was joined by Nadia Beckett to talk about arbitration and separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by Nadia Beckett to talk about arbitration and separation. **About the episode:** This episode is all about arbitration as an alternative route to resolving disputes during a divorce or separation. Kate and Nadia begin with the basics looking at what arbitration is and how it differs from going through the court. They explore when you might want to use arbitration as well as how to find an arbitrator. Nadia outlines the arbitration process, including how long it takes to reach a decision, and how an arbitrator’s determination will need to be written into a consent order if the decision is around finances. They also talk about the fact arbitration can be used for cohabiting couples as well, in their property disputes. They finish by exploring the advantages and the barriers to arbitration. **About our guests:** [Nadia ](https://www.beckettltd.com/our-team)has been a family law solicitor for 30 years and established Beckett Solicitors in August 2008. She specialises in private children and matrimonial financial disputes.  Nadia has been a mediator since 1997 and a Family Law Arbitrator since 2013. She is dual-qualified as a financial and children arbitrator and is a founding member of the Certainty Project. Nadia also co-chairs the IFLA ([Institute of Family Law Arbitrators](https://ifla.org.uk/)), executive committee and sits on the IFLA rules committee as well as chairing the FFA (Forum of Family Law Arbitrators).   **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 83 — Conscious uncoupling with author, Katherine Woodward Thomas Published: 2023-05-17 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-83-conscious-uncoupling-with-katherine-woodward-thomas > In this episode, Kate was joined by Katherine Woodward Thomas to talk about conscious uncoupling. In this episode, Kate was joined by Katherine Woodward Thomas to talk about conscious uncoupling.  **About the episode:** [Katherine](https://www.consciousuncoupling.com/) is perhaps best known for having coined the phrase ‘[conscious uncoupling](https://www.consciousuncoupling.com/)’ famously used by [Gwyneth Paltrow](https://goop.com/wellness/relationships/conscious-uncoupling-2/) and Chris Martin to describe their separation in 2014 and the topic of this episode. Kate begins by asking Katherine to define conscious uncoupling and what led to her becoming a marriage and family psychotherapist. They discuss the notion of fairness being hardwired and how becoming aware of emotions such as guilt, shame and anger are important in the healing journey. Katherine talks about how conscious uncoupling takes work and self-reflection and the barriers that prevent us from achieving it. They explore the stages of conscious uncoupling and what to do if your ex-partner is resistant. Kate and Katherine finish by chatting through an example of how to de-escalate conflict situations with an ex using Katherine’s three-stage technique of: apology, acknowledgement, and amends.  **About our guests:** [Katherine](https://www.consciousuncoupling.com/) is the New York Times bestselling author of Conscious Uncoupling: 5 Steps to Living Happily Even After and Calling in “The One”: 7 Weeks to Attracting the Love of Your Life, as well as an award-winning licensed marriage and family psychotherapist. Over the past two decades, Katherine has taught hundreds of thousands of people from all corners of the globe to create conscious, loving relationships. Katherine’s virtual learning communities include the Conscious Uncoupling & Calling in “The One” Quests with Mindvalley. She also trains and certifies Calling in “The One” Coaches and Conscious Uncoupling Coaches, and provides ongoing supervision and development to a vibrant community of coaches from around the world. Katherine is a Billboard charting, #1 iTunes jazz artist with her CD, Lucky in Love, which was co-written and co-produced with The Brothers Koren. You can join Katherine for free in a two-part workshop [‘The Art of Conscious Completions: How to Avoid the 5 Most Common Breakup Mistakes That Cause Sufferings, Steal Joy, and Prevent Future Love’](https://www.consciousuncoupling.com/artofconsciouscompletion/) or find out more about her through [her website](https://www.consciousuncoupling.com/) or on [social media](https://www.instagram.com/katherinewoodwardthomas/). Kate Daly is the Co-founder of [amicable](https://amicable.io/), the online legal service for divorcing and separating couples.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 82 — Is it worth changing your will after divorce? with Farewill Published: 2023-05-03 · Duration: 36 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-82-wills-divorce-and-separation-with-farewill > In this episode, Kate was joined by Hayley Weston from Farewill and Siân Ford from amicable to talk about wills and how they are impacted by relationships. In this episode, Kate was joined by Hayley Weston from [Farewill](https://farewill.com/) and Siân Ford from amicable to talk about Wills and how they are impacted by relationships. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate, Hayley and Siân start with the basics looking at what a Will is and when you might need one. They go on to talk about how Wills are impacted by different types of relationships including cohabitation, marriage and civil partnerships. What becomes clear is the importance of having a Will, particularly if you’re in a cohabiting relationship. They also discuss blended families and estate planning, as well as when you should seek specialist advice from a tax expert.  **About our guests:** [Farewill ](https://farewill.com/)provides Will-writing, probate, and cremation services in the UK. Its mission is to change the way the world deals with death, putting people at the heart of everything they do. Farewill is the UK’s favourite will-writer, winning National Will Writing Firm of the Year for the fourth year in a row at the 2021 British Wills and Probate Awards, and Probate Provider of the Year for the second consecutive year in 2021.  Hayley Weston has been with [Farewill](https://farewill.com/) for just over a year and is the Lead Solicitor on their Legal team. She is primarily responsible for all aspects of the legal accuracy of the company’s wills and she provides day-to-day supervision and support to the online and telephone Wills teams, as well as supporting where needed on our probate and funerals business. Hayley joined Farewill having previously specialised in all areas of private practice from Wills, probate, trusts, estate and tax planning. Siân Ford is a Consent Order Specialist at [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)having completed a law degree, LPC and Masters specialising in family law. Before joining amicable, Sian worked at several law firms working with private client with a focus on Wills and probate. She also has experience in criminal practice and Cardiff Crown Court.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 81 — Infidelity, affairs and divorce with Mr. Divorce Coach Published: 2023-04-19 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-81-infidelity-affairs-and-separation-with-mr-divorce-coach > In this episode, Kate was joined by Tom Nash, Mr Divorce Coach to talk about healing from infidelity and affairs. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Tom Nash](https://mrdivorcecoach.co.uk/about/), Mr Divorce Coach to talk about healing from infidelity and affairs. **About the episode:** Topics Kate and Tom cover in this episode include: reasons why people cheat, how a victim of an affair isn’t always a victim of the marriage, the situations when reconciliation is possible, how to work through an affair and the role of shared accountability. He explained how coaching offers an opportunity for self-reflection and growth. They end the episode with Tom sharing his top tips for navigating a blended family based on his personal and professional experience. **About our guests:** [Tom Nash](https://mrdivorcecoach.co.uk/about/) is the UK's premier internationally certified Male Divorce Coach and knows first-hand the roller coaster of emotions and practical challenges of separation, having grown up with divorced parents, in a blended family and going through his own divorce. He retrained as a Master NLP Practitioner in Coaching and now supports individuals & couples with the emotional, mindset & practical realities of their divorce, separation, and co-parenting. He is regularly in the media sharing his unique expertise, from BBC Radio to The Times, and ITVs This Morning.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 80 — Discussing men’s mental health after divorce with Nav Mirza Published: 2023-04-05 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-80-when-the-system-fails-with-nav-mirza-founder-of-dads-unlimited > In this episode, Kate was joined by Nav Mirza to talk about his experience of divorce, what happens when the system fails and why he founded Dads Unlimited. In this episode, Kate was joined by Nav Mirza to talk about his experience of divorce, what happens when the system fails and why he founded [Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/).  **About the episode:** Coming up to the one-year mark of the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, which came into law on April 6th 2022, this episode is all about what happens when the system fails, and future reforms in this space. Kate began this episode by exploring Nav’s experience of divorce and the various ways he and his family were let down by the legal system and other public bodies. They explore positive reforms that have taken place since Nav’s separation, as well as future reforms that need to happen to help protect people in similar situations in the future. Nav also explains more about the wonderful work of [Dads Unlimted](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/).  **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including poor mental health, suicide and abuse. **Organisations who can help:** - [Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/) - **[Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)** - **[Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/)** - mental health charity - **[Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)**- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - **[YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger)** – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help **[here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469)** **About our guests:** [Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/) is a men’s mental health charity working with fathers who have gone through family separation and male victims of domestic abuse. Its purpose is to help improve the outcomes for the men and the people they care for. Nav wanted to make life easier for dads in his situation, and provide the advice, support and community he didn’t have. Nav has a background in law having previously called to the Bar. He’s helped set up the Independent Police Complaints Commission; held senior positions from the NHS Chief Executive programme, as well as a host of strategic, tactical and operational roles from across Central Government, including the House of Commons, House of Lords and the Home Office. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 79 — Support for single parents with Gingerbread’s Victoria Benson Published: 2023-03-22 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-79-victoria-benson-ceo-of-gingerbread > In this episode, Kate was joined by Victoria Benson, CEO of the Single Parents Charity, Gingerbread. In this episode, Kate was joined by Victoria Benson, CEO of the Single Parents Charity, [Gingerbread](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/). **About the episode:** Kate and Victoria began this episode by looking at what constitutes a single parent and how Gingerbread take the view it is a ‘self-defined term’. Victoria told Kate about the work Gingerbread does to promote the interests of all single parents by lobbying government for social reforms around support and equal opportunities for single parents. They went on to talk about how they support single parents with free advice, from their helpline and how Gingerbread campaigns tirelessly to redress the stigma that exists within society. Their expert advice and information help tens of thousands of single parents every year, particularly around child maintenance, childcare and benefits. Victoria also talks about her own personal experience of being a single parent and how this has fed into her passion for promoting the political and social interests of single parents. **How to contact Gingerbread: ** - Gingerbread's helpline - [0808 802 0925](tel:08088020925) - [Gingerbread website](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/) - [Advice and support services](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/advice_and_support_for_single_parents/) **About our guests:** With a background in law as a solicitor, [Victoria](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/what-we-do/about-gingerbread/staff-and-supporters/our-team/) joined Gingerbread in February 2019, having served previously on their Board. Before joining Gingerbread, Victoria was Director of Legal & Governance at Cancer Support charity MacMillan. [Gingerbread](https://www.gingerbread.org.uk/) has supported and championed single parents since 1918. Originally called the National Council for the Unmarried Mother and her Child, they’ve worked for over 100 years to make sure that single parents are not forgotten. They’ve changed laws, influenced government and challenged stigma and stereotypes. Their expert advice and information help tens of thousands of single parents every year. Through their policy work, they ensure that their members’ concerns and experiences are taken to the heart of Westminster and that their in-person and online communities can be found across England and Wales, providing support to thousands of single parents and their children. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 78 — Navigating cohabitation property rights for unmarried couples Published: 2023-03-08 · Duration: 32 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-78-the-legal-rights-of-unmarried-couples-living-together-and-the-financial-implications-of-ending-a-cohabitating-relationship > In this episode, Kate was joined by Angela Lally who is a qualified solicitor specialising in Family Law to discuss cohabitation when a relationship ends. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Angela Lally](https://www.rucklidges.co.uk/angela-lally-sheffield-bio/) who is a qualified solicitor specialising in Family Law to discuss cohabitation when a relationship ends. **About the episode:** Kate and Angela begin the episode by discussing the rights cohabitating couples have compared with those who are married or in civil partnerships. Many will be surprised to learn there is no such thing as a common-law husband or wife, and this myth can have some dangerous financial consequences. They look at ways to protect yourself from future conflict if your relationship breaks down after cohabiting and complications around property whether or you’re not named on the deeds. Perhaps the biggest contrast between how finances are dealt with for married and cohabiting relationships is to do with pensions and the inequality this can create for anyone sacrificing a career to care for children. They finish with their thoughts on cohabitation law reforms and in their absence, the advice to make sure you engage your partner in a conversation about your finances if you are cohabiting in England or Wales. **About our guests:** With over 20 years’ of experience, [Angela Lally](https://www.rucklidges.co.uk/angela-lally-sheffield-bio/) has focused her practice on the financial aspects arising out of relationship breakdown, for both married and cohabiting couples.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 77 — Rediscovering personal growth after divorce with Ed Bassett Published: 2023-02-22 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-77-how-to-adopt-a-growth-mindset-to-navigate-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by Ed Bassett, well-being entrepreneur, Dad, and rugby fan to discuss his divorce and journey of self-growth. In this episode, Kate was joined by Ed Bassett, well-being entrepreneur, Dad, and rugby fan to discuss his divorce and journey of self-growth.  **About the episode:** In this episode, they explore the catalyst for Ed’s divorce and how a shift in his mindset helped him to heal and support others through their divorces. Ed describes sleepwalking through his life and the impact his self-destructive behaviour had on his family. Accepting responsibility for his actions and their consequences, as well as making peace with his upbringing, helped Ed rebuild post-separation. They also look at the importance wellbeing has played in Ed’s healing journey, and how this sparked his latest venture, [Blue Mind](https://www.facebook.com/bluemindsuk/) a platform for men that encourages them to talk about their mental health. **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including poor mental health and suicide. **Organisations who can help: ** - [Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)  - [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/) - mental health charity - [Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - [YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger) – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help [here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469) **About our guests:** Having spent 20 years in the corporate energy sector, Ed Bassett returned to the UK from South East Asia and found himself separating from his wife, coping with a family bereavement, a failed start-up and navigating a new parenting relationship post-separation. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 76 — Divorce financial planning during a cost of living crisis Published: 2023-02-08 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-76-divorce-financial-planning-during-a-cost-of-living-crisis > In this episode, Kate was joined by Louise Oliver, a Certified Financial Planner and Chartered Wealth Manager to discuss financial planning and divorce during a cost-of-living crisis. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/), a Certified Financial Planner and Chartered Wealth Manager to discuss financial planning and divorce during a cost-of-living crisis.  **About the episode:** Kate and Louise began this episode by discussing the value a financial planner can bring to discussions during divorce and separation. Louise explained the importance of being pragmatic, and willing to tweak your agreements as you move through the process. They looked at the impact of fluctuating asset valuations, especially during a cost-of-living crisis, and the importance of making sensible investments that reflect your attitude to risk. Louise made the point that different types of assets react differently to the varying market conditions and the importance of having a mix of different assets when you separate finances after divorce. They also explored options around the family home, maintenance payments and pensions. **About our guests:** [Louise Oliver](https://piercefieldoliver.com/our-team/louise-oliver/) has worked in the financial services sector for over 30 years. Throughout her career, she has regularly featured as a financial expert in the media, including across the BBC, Moneybox and local radio.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 75 — How to end a relationship amicably with comedian Julian Deane Published: 2023-01-25 · Duration: 24 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-75-navigating-ending-relationships-and-blended-families-with-comedian-julian-deane > In this episode, Kate was joined by Julian Deane, a comedian and writer, to talk about navigating ending relationships and blended families. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Julian Deane](https://www.juliandeane.co.uk/), a comedian and writer, to talk about navigating ending relationships and blended families.  **About the episode:** Kate and Julian began this episode by talking about Julian’s experience of parenting after separation when his two long-term relationships ended. Kate explores the difference each separation had on his life, as well as the impact of his career on those relationships. Julian gives his top tips on maintaining good working relationships with his exes, with his five children front and centre of decision-making. They also touch on the impact of his own parent's separation and the importance of being happy which puts you in a better position to parent your children. **About our guests:** [Julian Deane](https://www.juliandeane.co.uk/) is an award-winning British stand-up comedian and writer. Within a few years of starting stand-up, he was named Best New Comedian by the Comedy Café in London, and won the ITV Stand Up Hero and the Laughing Horse New Act of the Year competitions. Julian has appeared on The Russell Howard Hour and supported, Joe Lycett, John Bishop, Paul Chowdhry and Jason Manford on a world tour. He is also a writer, with his credits including TV shows Never Mind the Buzzcocks and Mock the Week. Julian also hosts the [Two Vegan Idiots](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/two-vegan-idiots-with-romesh-ranganathan/id1438770952?i=1000469813641) also known as TVI podcast, with fellow comedian [Carl Donnelly](https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-30-carl-donnelly), who has also featured on The Divorce Podcast. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 74 — How to support yourself financially after divorce with LiveMore Published: 2023-01-11 · Duration: 32 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-74-funding-a-life-after-divorce-with-livemore > In this episode, I am joined by Tash Bloom from LiveMore and Audrey a LiveMore customer to talk about funding life after separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by Tash Bloom from [LiveMore](https://livemorecapital.com/) and Audrey, a LiveMore customer, to talk about funding life after separation. **About the episode:** [LiveMore ](https://livemorecapital.com/)is a mortgage provider for people aged 50 and over. Audrey begins this episode by talking about her own divorce and how it left her in a difficult financial situation, something many will relate to. Kate explores common financial problems that arise after a separation and Tash talks about the ways that LiveMore has helped Audrey to fund her life after divorce. Audrey touches on inheritance planning and the role of pensions in her own divorce settlement. Tash explains the different types of mortgages on offer once you hit later life and alternative ways of securing funding to purchase properties. As Tash points out, there are lots of different specialists you can consult if you are looking for advice post-divorce and you are over 50.  **About our guests:** Audrey has been on a journey of self-re-discovery, after divorcing her husband due to an affair 10 years ago. She left her job in the City and became super-mum and super-grandma, helping her daughter during an incredibly challenging health crisis. Now settled in her new and (almost completely) renovated bungalow, she is focusing on the next stage of her life and is very much looking forward to the future and the adventures it will bring.   Tash Bloom is EA to the CEO of [LiveMore](https://livemorecapital.com/). She is also the company’s customer ambassador, building and maintaining relationships with customers. She regularly represents the CEO at meetings and events and is an extension of the brand wherever she goes. Committed to the company values, Tash is a dedicated LiveMore team member and gets no greater pleasure than witnessing the happiness of the customers they have been able to help. You can find more about LiveMore [here](https://livemorecapital.com/), or book a call to speak to one of their mortgage advisors [here](https://calendly.com/mark-finan/15min).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 73 — Managing strong emotions after separation or divorce Published: 2022-12-28 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-73-how-to-manage-strong-emotions-and-inflammatory-language-as-a-co-parent > In this episode, Kate was joined by Marcie Shaoul, Director of The Co-Parent Way, to discuss managing strong emotions and inflammatory language as well as her new co-parenting course. In this episode, Kate was joined by Marcie Shaoul, Director of The Co-Parent Way, to discuss managing strong emotions and inflammatory language as well as her new co-parenting course.  **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Marcie explore [Marice’s new course](https://thecoparentway.mykajabi.com/a/2147523293/522C3rbX) and how it can benefit co-parents. They then look at tools for helping to manage strong emotions if you're a separated parent. Marcie explains that fear is often the overriding emotion couples experience when facing the prospect of no longer living with their children full-time. They also discuss ways to tackle fear and other emotions like anger and the importance of self-care and putting on your own oxygen mask first to regulate your own emotions. Marcie explains how using inflammatory language is a conscious choice, and they talk about why a parent might make that choice when it inevitably leads to escalations and that whilst you can’t prevent your partner from using inflammatory language, you can change from reacting to responding by hitting the pause button before replying. **About our guests:** Marcie Shaoul is the Director of The Co-Parent Way, the UK’s only Co-Parent Coaching Practice. She is a thought leader in co-parenting and is responsible for developing a unique coaching methodology that enables parents to get to a place where they can co-parent together effectively after separation. It provides coaching specifically for couples or individuals who are separating and who have kids. Marcie is also a member of Resolution and sits on their Parenting After Parting Committee. If you’re interested in Marcie’s co-parenting course you can learn more and sign up [here](https://thecoparentway.mykajabi.com/a/2147523293/522C3rbX).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 72 — How to create a divorce budget with the Founder of HyperJar Published: 2022-12-14 · Duration: 44 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-72-budgeting-tips-and-advice-during-a-divorce-or-separation > In this episode, Kate was joined by Mat Megens, founder and CEO of HyperJar, to discuss budgeting during divorce and separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by Mat Megens, founder and CEO of [HyperJar](https://community.hyperjar.com/hc/en-us), to discuss budgeting during divorce and separation.  **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Mat talk about the idea of budgeting during divorce and separation. They explore the freedom that’s gained from having a better grasp on your money and being able to save. Divorce is often seen as such a negative event in financial terms, but Mat’s tips turn that idea on its head and show how cathartic and life-changing taking control of your finances can be. Mat describes the idea of underspending, giving you a buffer for life’s unexpected hurdles, this is particularly useful in the wake of the cost of living crisis. He believes budgeting and saving is a mindset which can be learned and taught – an invaluable skill you can pass down to your children. Mat is divorced himself and describes his divorce as an opportunity to improve his and his ex-partner’s spending habits and lifestyle. Viewing budgeting through this lens is an empowering step you can take to give you more financial freedom and control if you are separating in these financially trying times. Mat ends the episode by sharing his top budgeting tips. **About our guests:** Mat Megens started his career in Canada and the USA as an electrical engineer designing circuit boards for telecom companies big and small. He then made a career switch into finance which is what brought him to London. He worked in fixed income for both Lehman Brothers and Morgan Stanley, where the idea for [HyperJa](https://community.hyperjar.com/hc/en-us)r was inspired. He then worked for IFC, part of The World Bank, helping to setup up financing products in developing nations around the world before finally making the leap to entrepreneurship. Mat combined his engineering and finance careers along with his frustrations as a saving-oriented consumer to launch HyperJar. HyperJar is a free-to-the-consumer app that helps people plan and navigate their journey from depositing money to spending it.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 71 — Exploring divorce law change and reform with MP Siobhan Baillie Published: 2022-11-30 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-71-divorce-and-separation-with-mp-siobhan-baillie > In this episode, Kate was joined by Siobhan Baillie, Conservative MP for Stroud, to discuss family policy reform and its impact on people separating and divorcing. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Siobhan Baillie](https://www.siobhanbaillie.org.uk/), Conservative MP for Stroud, to discuss family policy reform and its impact on people separating and divorcing. **About the episode:** Kate and Siobhan begin this episode by looking at Siobhan’s lived experience of divorce, that of her own parent's separation and how this has sparked her passion for policy reform, particularly around children proceedings and her work with the Positive Parenting Alliance. They explore the changes that the introduction of no-fault divorce has meant for separating couples and what needs to change in the future so that children are less impacted by their parent's separation. **About our guests:** [Siobhan Baillie](https://www.siobhanbaillie.org.uk/) is the MP for Stroud, having won the key swing seat from Labour in 2019. Born in West Sussex and educated in Yorkshire, Siobhan left school at 17 to work as a legal secretary, studying law in her spare time to qualify as a solicitor. Following on from a career in law, Siobhan stood as a local councillor in Camden and worked as Head of Policy and Communications for OnePlusOne before standing down in 2018 to dedicate her career to parliamentary politics. Since her election in 2019, Siobhan has been appointed to the Work and Pensions Select Committee and has served as Co-Chair of the All-party parliamentary group for Relationships. Siobhan has done key work in campaigning for greater environmental protection, and she remains a key campaigner for further education. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 70 — Reducing the average cost of divorce with Anthony Syder Published: 2022-11-16 · Duration: 45 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-70-how-to-keep-the-cost-of-divorce-low > In this episode, Kate was joined by Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to talk about keeping the cost of divorce low. In this episode, Kate was joined by Divorce Specialist, Anthony Syder to talk about keeping the cost of divorce low.  **About the episode:** They begin this episode by looking at Anthony’s tips around keeping the legal costs down whilst you divorce including how much of the legal process you can do yourself and the options available to you when it comes to choosing professional help. Kate and Anthony look at some factors that impact the fairness of a financial settlement, particularly given the current cost of living crisis, and what fluctuating asset valuations, such as pensions, mean in terms of your financial agreements. Lastly, they look at practical things to consider as you make arrangements for your children, such as the rising cost of childcare and how child maintenance works. This is a great episode if you are looking for ways to keep the cost of divorce low during the current cost of living crisis. **About our guests:** Anthony is a divorce specialist at [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)and has worked in the area of divorce, mediation and family dispute resolution for the past 8 years. His areas of interest include the voice of the child and diverse and inclusive families. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 69 — Being a solo parent: parenting with Slummy Mummy, Jo Middleton Published: 2022-11-02 · Duration: 39 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-69-solo-parenting-with-jo-middleton-the-slummy-single-mummy > In this episode, Kate was joined by Jo Middleton to talk about solo parenting. In this episode, Kate was joined by Jo Middleton to talk about solo parenting.  **About the episode:** Kate and Jo talk about her ‘mixed’ experience of relationships and co-parenting and her journey over the last 10 years as a solo mum. They explore the benefits of being a single parent, as well as the daily struggles and the idea of loneliness when you don’t have a partner or co-parent to lean on. Jo shares her tips on things you can do to make the solo parent journey easier and highlights that not everyone is able to co-parent, however, there are many joys that come from solo parenting. **About our guests:** Jo is the creator of the award-winning parenting blog, [slummy single mummy](https://slummysinglemummy.com/), and solo parent to two daughters, now aged 27 and 20. Jo had her first child aged 17 in the middle of her A-levels and is now 44, and Granny to a 3-year-old. One of her daughters lives at home and has recently been diagnosed with ASD.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 68 — Co-parenting tips for young children with Jen Gallagher Published: 2022-10-19 · Duration: 30 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-68-co-parenting-tips-and-advice-for-younger-children > In this episode, Kate was joined by Co-Parenting Coach, Jen Gallagher, to discuss her tips on approaching co-parenting for younger children. In this episode, Kate was joined by Co-Parenting Coach, [Jen Gallagher](https://www.instagram.com/singleparentingsolutions/), to discuss her tips on approaching co-parenting for younger children.  **About the episode:** Jen explored the idea of reframing common co-parenting issues so that everyone’s a winner. Reframing how you present a creative solution can shift what your partner might consider as controlling behaviour to something that can benefit everyone involved. Jen also shared her tips around having a routine that’s meaningful to your child rather than seeing things through an adult lens. **About our guests:** Jen is a Co-parenting Coach and a former therapist with a child development background. Jen is based in Florida, and she has thriving co-parenting coaching practice supporting divorced and uncoupled parents transitioning to become co-parents. She specialises in children from babies through to 8 years old and shares her wonderful tips and advice on Instagram.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 67 — Financial abuse during divorce with financial abuse specialist Published: 2022-10-05 · Duration: 35 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-67-financial-abuse-during-a-divorce-or-separation > In this episode, Kate was joined by Michelle Hoskin a financial abuse specialist, to discuss financial and economic abuse during a divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Michelle Hoskin a financial abuse specialist, to discuss financial and economic abuse during a divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode Kate and Michelle look at financial and economic abuse and how it can manifest during a divorce or separation. Michelle explains the key signs of financial and economic abuse and what can be done on an individual and professional level to help those going through this.  TW : Some listeners may find the information and topics discussed distressing. Please get in touch if any of these issues have affected you and we will put you in touch with the best professionals to help.  Useful links/ charities: - [Surviving Economic Abuse ](https://survivingeconomicabuse.org/) - [Dash ](https://www.dashriskchecklist.co.uk/) - [Refuge](https://refuge.org.uk/) - [Men's Advice Line](https://mensadviceline.org.uk/) **About our guests:** Michelle is an international speaker, author and regular contributor to the professional press and media, with nearly 25 years of experience working alongside some of the world’s most successful financial services organisations. She is also the Founder and Director of [Standards International](https://standardsinternational.co.uk/) a leading dedicated certification body in the UK.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 66 — Balancing parenting and work as a single parent Published: 2022-09-21 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-66-tips-for-single-working-parents-with-yuri-sinata > In this episode, Kate was joined by Yuri Sinata to share her experience and tips around being a single working parent. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Yuri Sinata](https://www.instagram.com/yurisinata/) to share her experience and tips around being a single working parent. **About the episode:** Yuri begins this episode by exploring the various challenges faced by single working parents, and she shares some fantastic tips on how to make the day-to-day that little bit easier. They look at Yuri’s upbringing and how having strong supportive role models around her, has helped in her journey being a single parent. Kate and Yuri discuss her marriage and divorce, and her relocation to Los Angeles. They explore her love of food and fitness and how this has helped her cope in the wake of her divorce. **About our guests:** Yuri is a business owner and creator born and raised in Surabaya, Indonesia. She is also a single mother to her son, Kai. Yuri came to the US in 2007 at the age of 24 with no plan, money, very little English and no identity, but she garnered the will and determination to build her life and business in Los Angeles. Through the years, she battled various obstacles: graduating from the Paul Mitchell school, paying her own school fees, opening up a new business after years of working for others, experiencing postpartum depression and healing after a divorce. Having a platform to share this dialogue with others is cathartic for Yuri. She utilises social media to share what she loves: beauty, cooking, health and wellness. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 65 — How to save a marriage with Scummy Mummy, Ellie Gibson Published: 2022-09-07 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-65-how-to-save-a-marriage-with-ellie-gibson-from-the-scummy-mummies > In this episode, Kate was joined by journalist and comedian, Ellie Gibson to discuss relationship struggles and how to make a marriage work in the wake of a separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by journalist and comedian, [Ellie Gibson](https://twitter.com/elliegibson) to discuss relationship struggles and how to make a marriage work in the wake of a separation. **About the episode:** The episode begins with Kate and Ellie exploring her relationship and how separation and space ended up making her marriage stronger, resulting in two beautiful children with her husband Pete. She describes the lead-up to her split from her now husband, Pete, which many will find relatable. A sequence of arguments about ‘small’ yet fundamental issues led to the couple deciding to take a series of breaks. Ellie found individual therapy useful in getting to a place where she could reconcile with her husband. She described the impact her best friend’s divorce had on her and her husband, and she talked about the importance of trying to navigate tough patches, rather than giving up or cheating. This episode is a homage to marriage and the work required to keep a relationship strong. **About our guests:** Ellie is the co-host of the number one parenting podcast [The Scummy Mummies](https://www.scummymummies.com/). She joined forces with Helen Thorn to become The **Scummy Mummies **in 2013 and they have gone on to produce an award-winning podcast, a sell-out touring comedy show, and a popular book.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 64 — Men and divorce - exploring the Blue Mind Approach Published: 2022-08-24 · Duration: 44 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-64-men-and-divorce-advice-from-the-founder-of-blue-mind-approach > In this episode, Kate was joined by Mark Kozminski to talk about his divorce and the impact it had on his mental health which led him to create the Blue Mind Approach, to help other men going through divorce and separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by Mark Kozminski to talk about his divorce and the impact it had on his mental health which led him to create the [Blue Mind Approach](https://bluemindapproach.com/), to help other men going through divorce and separation. **About the episode:** Kate and Mark touch on many common struggles that specifically men face whilst going through a separation and how this can impact healing after. Fitness and health played a crucial role in healing for Mark, as did the notion of acceptance and its ability to drive change. They also look at Mark’s co-parenting and the journey from no contact, to now having a functioning parenting arrangement post-divorce. Finally, they explore the difficulties that are presented when one person moves on earlier than the other and how damaging labels can be for both people involved. **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including alcohol abuse, gambling, poor mental health and suicide. **Organisations who can help: ** - [Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp)  - [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/) - mental health charity - [Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - [YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger) – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help [here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469) - [Gamcare ](https://www.gamcare.org.uk/)- support with gambling - [Alcoholics Anonymous](https://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/) (AA) - support with alcohol addiction **About our guests:** The [Blue Mind Approach](https://bluemindapproach.com/) is a platform that aims to drive behavioural change, build awareness, and encourage men to share, heal and grow. Kate and Mark discuss his divorce and journey of personal growth and self-discovery. Mark speaks candidly about his former drinking and gambling addiction which contributed to his separation and subsequent divorce. They discuss the void in support and advice for men going through a separation, and how this lack of support can often fuel addictions and mental health problems. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 63 — How language can impact divorce and separation Published: 2022-08-10 · Duration: 50 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-63-how-language-can-impact-divorce-and-separation > In this episode, Kate was joined by Helen Adam and Kate Stanley to talk about language and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Helen Adam and Kate Stanley to talk about language and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and her guests discuss the power of language in shaping and reforming social issues and apply this to divorce and separation. The language that is used in policy and in wider society, has a real impact on people who are separating. They explore the changes in language brought in with the Children’s Act, and the move away from ‘battle language’ towards cooperative language, as well as the changes in language brought in with 'no-fault divorce' earlier this year. Finally, Kate and her guests look at other social issues and how shifting the language has had a positive effect. **About our guests:** Helen Adam started her work with separating families as a solicitor in London. These were pre-Children Act days, with battles over custody and residence. Following a career break, she retrained as a mediator and founded [Wells Family Mediation](https://www.wellsfamilymediation.co.uk/about-wfm/). Helen is also chair of the [Family Solutions Group ](https://www.familysolutionsgroup.co.uk/)(FSG). The FSG presses for coordinated political oversight and funding for separated families. Helen is currently part of an FSG sub-group who are reviewing the language used ‘in the system’ for families who live apart. They will be making recommendations for change away from adversarial vocabulary to language which is more family-focussed, promoting child welfare and safe outcomes for all. Kate Stanley is Executive Director of [FrameWorks UK ](https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/uk/)– a not for profit communications and research organisation that helps mission-driven organisations achieve the social change they seek. From 2011, Kate served as Board Director at NSPCC, for nearly ten years. Previously, Kate was Deputy Director of the leading thinktank, the Institute for Public Policy Research, where she worked closely with academics and organisations to influence government social policy and practice. She has published widely on social policy and advised a wide range of governmental and non-governmental organisations including the University of Glasgow and UK Research and Innovation, and served on the Steering Group on Early Years advising the Duchess of Cambridge on her work in this field. Kate started her career in international development charities, including Save the Children, working in the UK and overseas. She was awarded a Clore Social Leadership Fellowship in 2010, is a Fellow of the British American Project, and former trustee of Hope and Homes for Children. She holds an MA in Social Anthropology from the University of Edinburgh. P.S. We're sorry about the sound quality of Kate Stanley's audio. There was a problem with the recording equipment, and it's not up to our usual standard.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 62 — Life after divorce with actor and comedian, Wendy Wason Published: 2022-07-27 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-62-wendy-wason > In this episode, Kate was joined by Scottish actor and comedian, Wendy Wason, to talk about her divorce and navigating life after separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by Scottish actor and comedian, Wendy Wason, to talk about her divorce and navigating life after separation.  **About the episode:** Kate and Wendy discuss Wendy’s first marriage and subsequent divorce, which took place when her children were still young. They look at the impact her parent’s divorce had on how she managed her own separation, including her need to avoid conflict at all costs. Wendy talked about how stand-up presented a lifeline both financially and emotionally, although she described the difficulties that come with being a working single parent, particularly around organising childcare. They also explore Wendy’s blended family with both she and her ex-husband remarrying and the benefit of being able to sit down with a new partner and discuss how to navigate parenting in a new family setup. **About our guests:** Wendy has had many notable appearances across Theatre, Stand-up, Film and TV including roles in Coupling, The IT Crowd, Midsomer Murders, Sherlock, and Outcast. She is a mother of three and went through her own divorce in 2007 and has since remarried. You can find follow Wendy on social media [here](https://www.instagram.com/wendy_wason/).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 61 — Navigating the healing process after breakup with Mark Groves Published: 2022-07-13 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-61-self-growth-and-healing-following-breakups-separation-and-divorce-with-mark-groves-from-create-the-love > In this episode, Kate was joined by Mark Groves to discuss self-growth and healing following breakups, separation and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Mark Groves](https://www.instagram.com/createthelove/)** **to discuss self-growth and healing following breakups, separation and divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Mark explore how to heal from a breakup or a separation. They also looked at the context of marriage and relationships, including how society perpetuates ‘bad’ breakups by reinforcing shame and guilt on those going through them. Mark explained the paradox of not having ‘important’ conversations, out of fear of losing that relationship, when in reality, silence often contributes to relationship breakdown. They looked at whether the way people deal with breakups is gendered and how we could do more to help cultivate healthy relationships individually and as a society. They agreed that a relationship ending is not a failure, but rather an opportunity for self-exploration and growth. **About our guests:** Mark is a Human Connection Specialist, speaker, writer, and motivator. Mark founded [Create The Love](https://createthelove.com/) a platform that guides people to design the life and love they long for, following on from his own rock bottom when his relationship ended. He hosts [The Mark Groves Podcast](https://markgroves.com/podcast/) and has a significant following on social media where he shares his insight into relationships.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 60 — Part 2: Discussing common divorce myths with TikTok’s Legal Queen Published: 2022-06-29 · Duration: 25 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-60-part-two-of-divorce-myth-busting-with-thelegalqueen > In this second myth-busting episode, Kate was joined by Tracey Moloney, known to many as The Legal Queen on Tiktok and other social media platforms. In this second myth-busting episode, Kate was joined by [Tracey Moloney](https://moloneyfamilylaw.co.uk/), known to many as [The Legal Queen ](https://www.tiktok.com/@thelegalqueen)on Tiktok and other social media platforms. **About the episode:** This is the second time Tracey has joined Kate on the podcast, so if you haven’t already, listen to their first episode (#58). For a number of years, she worked exclusively with clients that qualified for legal aid and specialised in children and financial matters following separation and divorce. She was Head of the Family Department for a nationwide legal firm, where she was responsible for a team of 28 legal advisors. Tracey trained solicitors in her role as training principal and is an associate lecturer in family law at the University of Bristol. She aims to provide a clear explanation of people’s legal rights and help them to navigate the legal system. She shares her knowledge on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube as 'The Legal Queen' on all matters related to Family law. They spent this episode busting common divorce and separation myths such as; whether divorces will be automatic with the introduction of no-fault divorce, whether you ‘need’ to split your pensions or inheritance when you separate, why you may need to disclose your finances on divorce and myths around children and custody. This episode covered the most commonly asked questions about divorce and separation in easy digestible snippets. Watch this space for future myth-busting episodes. You might be able to hear Tracey's dog in this episode! **About our guests:** For a number of years, [Tracey Moloney](https://moloneyfamilylaw.com/) worked exclusively with clients that qualified for legal aid and specialised in children and financial matters following separation and divorce. She was Head of the Family Department for a nationwide legal firm, where she was responsible for a team of 28 legal advisors. Tracey trained solicitors in her role as training principal and is an associate lecturer in family law at the University of Bristol. She aims to provide a clear explanation of people’s legal rights and help them to navigate the legal system. She shares her knowledge on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube as '[The Legal Queen](https://www.tiktok.com/@thelegalqueen)' on all matters related to Family law.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 59 — Divorce and dads solo parenting with Dads Unlimited Published: 2022-06-08 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-59-dads-separation-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by James Hayhurst and Adam Colthorpe to discuss Dads and divorce or separation. In this episode, Kate was joined by James Hayhurst and Adam Colthorpe to discuss Dads and divorce or separation. **About the episode:** This episode started with Kate, James and Adam looking at some typical issues faced by Dads following on from a divorce or separation. What emerged was a clear set of gender-specific issues, routed in society, and a real need for reform, particularly in the workplace. They also explored the value of early intervention and limiting the negative impact of separation on families and children in particular. **About our guests:** James is the founder of the [Positive Parenting](https://theparentspromise.org/) [Alliance ](https://theparentspromise.org/)and creator of the [Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org/). He has a background in Marketing and PR but was compelled to set up the Positive Parenting Alliance having seen up close the multitude of issues in the family courts and the scale and numbers of children affected. James wanted to begin a new conversation about separation and so in May 2021, after many conversations with like-minded people and organisations the Parents Promise was launched. Backed by over 20 organisations including Only Mums & Dads, the children’s mental health charity Place2Be, Relate, Black Mums Upfront and our very own amicable, the aim of the Alliance is to effect important cultural change around separation in the UK and beyond.  Adam is the Director of Co-parenting for [Dads Unlimited](https://www.dadsunltd.org.uk/), a men’s mental health charity working with fathers who have gone through family separation and male victims of domestic abuse to help improve the outcomes for the men and the people they care for. He is the author and facilitator of the Co-parenting Programme ‘5 Steps to Co-parenting Success!’ which has been improving the lives of separated families for the last 4 years. He has two children which he co-parents with his ex-wife.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 58 — Part 1: Debunking common divorce myths with TikTok’s Legal Queen Published: 2022-05-25 · Duration: 32 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-58-myth-busting-with-thelegalqueen > In this first myth-busting episode, Kate was joined by Tracey Moloney, known to many as The Legal Queen on Tiktok and other social media platforms. In this first myth-busting episode, Kate was joined by [Tracey Moloney](https://moloneyfamilylaw.com/)**, **known to many as [The Legal Queen](https://www.tiktok.com/@thelegalqueen)** **on Tiktok and other social media platforms. **About the episode:** Kate and Tracey spent this episode busting common divorce and separation myths such as whether or not you need a solicitor to get divorced, when a financial order is needed in divorce proceedings, if common-law spouses exist and whether cohabiting couples have rights to property. This is part one of two myth-busting episodes, so keep an eye out for part two. **About our guests:** For a number of years, [Tracey Moloney](https://moloneyfamilylaw.com/) worked exclusively with clients that qualified for legal aid and specialised in children and financial matters following separation and divorce. She was Head of the Family Department for a nationwide legal firm, where she was responsible for a team of 28 legal advisors. Tracey trained solicitors in her role as training principal and is an associate lecturer in family law at the University of Bristol. She aims to provide a clear explanation of people’s legal rights and help them to navigate the legal system. She shares her knowledge on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube as '[The Legal Queen](https://www.tiktok.com/@thelegalqueen)' on all matters related to Family law.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 57 — How does divorce affect children? - a child’s perspective Published: 2022-05-11 · Duration: 41 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-57-divorce-and-separation-from-the-childs-perspective > In this episode, Kate was joined by Dr Angharad Rudkin a clinical psychologist with over 20 years experience of working with children and families to discuss divorce and separation from the perspective of children. In this episode, Kate was joined by Dr Angharad Rudkin a clinical psychologist with over 20 years experience of working with children and families to discuss divorce and separation from the perspective of children. **About the episode:** In the episode, Kate and Angharad explored how children of different ages and genders deal with divorce and separation and the delayed impact this can have in their later life. Angharad explained the idea of ‘re-grieving’ and the benefits revisiting a separation can have for children, even years later. They also looked at the different types of conflict and how in all its forms this can have a significant impact on children. They discussed the importance of including the other parent in your child’s life, even if they are no longer physically present. Finally, Angharad set out some useful tips on effective ways to tell your children that you’re separating, why parents often experience ‘guilt’ after they separate and what society should be doing in the future to redress the stigma that exists around parental separation. **About our guests:** Angharad is also an expert for the Metro's relationship column, offers training and consultation for family lawyers and worked as a lecturer on the Clinical Psychology doctorate at the University of Southampton for 12 years. Angharad was consulting editor for ‘101 Questions Answered about Separating with Children’ and has recently published a book for children on how to cope with their parent’s divorce, The Split Survival Kit, written with children’s author Ruth Fitzgerald. Angharad is also passionate about communicating her work and believes key messages around child and family wellbeing should not be limited to the clinic room or the classroom. Click on the link to find out more about Angharad's new book '[The Split Survival Kit: 10 Steps For Coping With Your Parents' Separation](https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Split-Survival-Kit-by-Angharad-Rudkin-author-Ruth-Fitzgerald-author-Stef-Murphy-illustrator/9781526364029)'.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 56 — Healing after divorce with comedian and actress, Samantha Baines Published: 2022-05-03 · Duration: 46 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-56-samantha-baines > In this episode, Kate was joined by comedian, actor and broadcaster Samantha Baines to discuss her divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by comedian, actor and broadcaster [Samantha Baines](https://www.samanthabaines.com/) to discuss her divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Sam began by exploring her separation which started off on an amicable footing but turned sour during divorce proceedings when solicitors got involved and two sides were created. Sam opened up about how difficult she found the initial aftermath and emotional fallout after her husband left and the difficulties the pandemic brought to the process. They looked at the challenges of healing after divorce as well as how rewarding Sam found it was to rediscover herself through working, sex, dating and self-exploration after the divorce. Sam discussed her own journey with her mental health and how she has found both therapy and medication useful in helping her to cope. Finally, they talked about Sam's wonderful podcast The Divorce Social which she created in part to help with her own emotional recovery and is a fantastic resource for others going through a similar thing. **About our guests:** Sam is an award-winning comedian, actor and broadcaster with many shows and appearances to her credit including The Crown, Call the midwife and Magic Mike Live. She is also the host of The Divorce Social podcast and has written for various publications including The Guardian, Time Out, Huffington Post, Stylist Magazine, The Pool, Standard Issue and has a column in Modern Woman Magazine. Sam’s debut children's book Harriet Versus the Galaxy was listed in the Independent's Best Children's Books of the Year 2019 and in the Book Trust's Great Book Guide 2020. She has a second children's book The Night the Moon Went Out which was released last summer. Sam is also an Ambassador for Royal National Institute for Deaf people, is a Phonak HEARo and has spoken to MPs at the House of Commons about hearing issues, as well as fronting the RNID cinema subtitles campaign.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 55 — The emotional journey of divorce with divorce coach, Sara Davison Published: 2022-04-21 · Duration: 46 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-55-sara-davison-on-navigating-the-emotional-journey-of-divorce-and-separation > In this episode, Kate was joined by Sara Davison, to discuss navigating the emotional process of divorce, separation and breakups. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Sara Davison](https://saradavison.com/), to discuss navigating the emotional process of divorce, separation and breakups. **About the episode:** In the episode, they begin by discussing the different types of divorce coaching all the way from amicable, which helps couples navigate the legal and financial process of divorce, to coaches like Sara, who help with the emotional and practical process of picking up your life after a breakup. They explored Sara’s own difficult journey through divorce which has shaped her career as a divorce coach. She offered some fantastic tips in terms of approaching divorce and stressed the importance of dealing with your current emotional state, but also looking to the future to help set yourself up in the best way possible. They also discussed the various flaws in the legal system and the need for future reform, particularly around children’s proceedings. This episode is full of helpful advice if you are confronted with a divorce, separation or breakup and aren’t sure where to start in terms of the emotional journey. **Trigger Warning** This episode covers content that some listeners might find distressing including poor mental health and abuse. **Organisations who can help: ** - [Your local GP](https://www.nhs.uk/service-search/find-a-gp) - [Mind](https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/helplines-listening-services/) - mental health charity - [Samaritans ](https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=onebox)- dial 116 123 or text SHOUT to 85258 - [Refuge](https://refuge.org.uk/) - Domestic abuse charity for women - [Men's Advice Line](https://mensadviceline.org.uk/) - Domestic abuse support for males  - [YoungMinds Crisis Messenger](https://youngminds.org.uk/find-help/get-urgent-help/youngminds-crisis-messenger) – for people under 19 - Is your life in danger? - dial 999 - Outside of the UK? Search for help [here](https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/11181469) **About our guests:** Sara is best known as The Divorce Coach but she’s also a best-selling author and worldwide media commentator on the topic of divorce and separation. As an NLP Master Practitioner, Sara combines 26 years’ coaching experience with her own personal experience of marriage breakdown to help clients cope with challenges including heartbreak, betrayal, conflict, confidence building, co-parenting, being effective in the workplace during divorce and dating again. Sara also hosts her own podcast, **[Heartbreak To Happiness](https://heartbreaktohappinesspodcast.com/)**, designed to help men and women struggling with the pain of relationship breakdown. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 54 — How to heal from a separation with author, Rosie Green Published: 2022-04-13 · Duration: 27 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-54-how-to-heal-a-broken-heart-with-rosie-green > In this episode, Kate was joined by author and journalist Rosie Green to discuss her journey from heartbreak to happiness. In this episode, Kate was joined by author and journalist [Rosie Green](https://www.lifesrosie.co.uk/) to discuss her journey from heartbreak to happiness.  **About the episode:** In the episode, Rosie talks to Kate about her marriage, painful separation and subsequent divorce. She talks about the importance of friendships, and how some friends might be better to lean on than others when you are going through a separation or divorce. They explore how Rosie has navigated co-parenting with her ex, the importance of finding productive and healthy ways to cope with a separation, dating post-divorce and finding happiness in new relationships. **About our guests:** Rosie has written for Red, The Times, The Telegraph and The Mail on Sunday and is the relationships expert on This Morning. Through her book, writing and [Instagram ](https://www.instagram.com/lifesrosie/)she aims to help others navigate their own breakups and take them with her on the journey from rock bottom to reinvention.  You can find out more about Rosie’s book [‘How to heal a broken heart’](https://lnk.to/HowToHealABrokenHeart) by clicking on the link.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. #SeparationStories --- ## Episode 53 — The introduction of no-fault divorce with Clive Coleman Published: 2022-04-06 · Duration: 33 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-53-the-introduction-of-no-fault-divorce-with-clive-coleman > Today marks the introduction of No-fault divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Clive Coleman to discuss the change in law, the media narrative around it and future reform in the divorce space. Today marks the introduction of no-fault divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Clive Coleman to discuss the change in law, the media narrative around it and future reform in the divorce space. **About the episode:** Clive has also been through his own divorce, which he talks about in this episode. Kate and Clive also look at how the media has previously covered divorce, its responsibility in sparking change, as well as future reform. Clive responds to criticism around no-fault divorce from religious groups and where to go to find information about no-fault divorce**.** **About our guests:** As the BBC’s Legal Correspondent between 2010 and 2020, Clive was the face and voice of legal coverage and analysis across the BBC news output on radio, television and the website. Drawing on his years as a practicing barrister, he covered a vast range of domestic and international legal stories and issues including 2019’s momentous Supreme Court prorogation case, Brexit, the growing courts' backlog, the Barclay brothers ‘Ritz’ dispute, GDPR, the VW emissions scandal, phone hacking, Sir Cliff Richard v BBC, and the Hillsborough tragedy inquests. Prior to becoming BBC Legal Correspondent, Clive was for six years the presenter of Radio 4’s flagship legal analysis programme ‘Law In Action’, and presented a raft of BBC programmes including Panorama ‘The Death of Kiss and Tell’, on the rise of privacy protection under the Human Rights Act. He has also been a columnist on ‘The Times’ and written for ‘The Guardian’ and ‘The Independent’. His time in journalism has given him a comprehensive knowledge of the media landscape, and a privileged insight into the justice system, the legal profession and civil and criminal law. Clive has an in-depth knowledge of how news stories work, are managed and affect the lives and reputations of those involved. His litigation training and experience in practice has given him a particular insight into news stories involving those going to law or seeking to avoid legal action, and the role of the lawyers advising and representing them. Clive is also an acclaimed writer for theatre, television and film. His credits include, the play ‘Young Marx’ which opened Sir Nicholas Hytner’s Bridge Theatre in 2017, ‘Chambers’, his BBC sit-com starring John Bird and Sarah Lancashire, and the film ‘The Duke’ starring Helen Mirren and Jim Broadbent, released in February 2022.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 52 — Financial planning for divorce with money expert Louise Oliver Published: 2022-03-29 · Duration: 47 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-52-financial-planning-for-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by Louise Oliver to discuss sorting out your finances when you get divorced and the value a financial planner can add to this process. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Louise Oliver](https://www.piercefieldoliver.com/) to discuss sorting out your finances when you get divorced and the value a financial planner can add to this process. **About the episode:** This is a longer episode full of tips and advice on finances and divorce. Kate and Louise start by exploring how a financial planner can help during a divorce and the importance of each person really understanding their current financial situation at the outset of the process, to make better-informed decisions about any proposed settlement. Louise talked about the work a planner does to ‘stress test’ potential settlements and looking at what is needed to ensure money lasts a lifetime rather than just the near future. Other topics they covered were; business valuations, considering life insurance if maintenance payments are being paid, the notion of 'fair' and financial abuse.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Louise** **has worked in the financial services sector for over 30 years and is a Certified Financial Planner and a Chartered Wealth Manager. Throughout her career, she has regularly featured as a financial expert in the media, including BBC breakfast TV, BBC radio 4, Moneybox and local radio. Louise also appeared as an expert for a BBC Panorama and has won awards for Female Financial Adviser of the Year (South West) and Role Model of the Year in Financial Services. Louise enjoys working with families and individuals to help them to navigate through life’s changes. A particular focus has been with regard to divorce, business sales and bereavement.     **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 51 — Sex after divorce with James Preece and Laura Friedman Williams Published: 2022-03-22 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-51-lets-talk-about-sex-after-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by Laura Friedman Williams and James Preece to discuss sex and dating after divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Laura Friedman Williams](https://laurafriedmanwilliams.medium.com/) and [James Preece](https://www.jamespreece.com/) to discuss sex and dating after divorce. **About the episode:‍** **Please be aware that this episode contains sexual references** so you might want to listen out of earshot of any children Kate and her guests discuss sex and dating after divorce or separation. Laura explains why she thinks that being single again after a divorce is a gift, and an opportunity to have sex with confidence. James also provides his tips on how to use dating apps safely and how different genders approach sex after divorce and separation. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Laura is a mother of three children and author of the recently published book [Available: A Very Honest Account of Life After Divorce](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Available-Memoir-Dating-After-Marriage/dp/B08YNXHKV9/ref=sr_1_1?crid=5UX62AIB770Z&keywords=available+laura+friedman+williams&qid=1647966224&sprefix=available+%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-1), which has been a #1 bestseller on Amazon and has featured in The Financial Times, Cosmopolitan, Vogue, and The Daily Mail.  James is one of the UK's leading Dating Experts and Dating Coaches. He is regularly featured in the Independent, Cosmopolitan, Men’s Health, and The Guardian. He is also an official dating spokesman for the UK government and the author of 15 bestselling dating books.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 50 — Get legally speaking about no-fault divorce with Hatti Suvari Published: 2022-03-16 · Duration: 33 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-50-get-legally-speaking-about-no-fault-divorce-with-hatti-suvari > In this episode, Kate is joined by Hatti Suvari to discuss the upcoming change in divorce law to a no-fault system. In this episode, Kate is joined by Hatti Suvari to discuss the upcoming change in divorce law to a no-fault system. **About the episode:** Kate and Hatti discuss the upcoming changes in divorce law to the new no-fault system which will be introduced on the 6th of April 2022 and the issues that exist within the current system, including why having to blame each other from the offset, makes for tricky negotiations of finances and children arrangements. They explore the common myth that unreasonable behaviour or adultery has a bearing on financial settlements, when in reality this only impacts a financial order in very extreme cases. Hatti talks about how the change in terminology should make divorce more accessible as people may feel more comfortable navigating the divorce process by themselves. They also look at potential criticisms of no-fault divorce and Hatti addresses the fact that divorces will take longer. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Hatti is the CEO of [Red Bar Law LLP](https://redbarlaw.com/) and the founder and host of the very popular[ Get Legally Speaking](https://getlegallyspeaking.com/) podcast. Hatti’s podcast focuses on making legal knowledge more accessible to ordinary people and has had almost two million downloads in the past two years.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 49 — Exploring blended families with Professor Lisa Doodson Published: 2022-03-09 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-49-stepfamilies > In this episode, Kate was joined by Professor Lisa Doodson to discuss stepfamilies following on from separation and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Professor Lisa Doodson to discuss stepfamilies following on from separation and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Lisa began by exploring what a ‘step or ‘blended family' is, as well as some typical challenges faced. Lisa talked about her own experience of being a stepmum and shared her tips on introducing biological children to stepchildren, as well as the importance of listening to your children and taking time when doing this. They discussed the notion of drawing boundaries and ways of coping with certain obstacles such as an uncooperative ex. Lisa shared her tips about choosing your battles, not falling into the good-cop, bad cop cycle, setting realistic expectations and what to expect from children of different ages and genders. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Lisa is a chartered psychologist and founder of [HappySteps](https://happysteps.co.uk/), a consultancy providing training and advice to both professionals and stepfamilies directly. As an expert in the field, Lisa frequently contributes to TV documentaries and comments in the press. The most recent being the BBC documentary following Rio and Kate Ferdinand on their journey to become a stepfamily. As part of her PhD she conducted an extensive study on stepfamily wellbeing and has published several books on the topic including ‘How to be a Happy Stepmum’ and ‘Understanding Stepfamilies: A practical guide for professionals working with blended families’. Lisa has also developed a range of evidence-based materials, including workshops and courses that she delivers to stepfamilies and family professionals. All services, research and educational materials are managed through her [website](http://www.happysteps.co.uk/).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 48 — Unravelling pensions and divorce with PensionBee Published: 2022-03-02 · Duration: 33 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-48-pensions-on-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by Clare Reilly from PensionBee and Anna Dunne from amicable to discuss pensions on divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by Clare Reilly from PensionBee and Anna Dunne from amicable to discuss pensions on divorce. **About the episode:** In the episode, Kate, Clare and Anna discuss the various types of pensions available to individuals and the key differences between them. They explored the typical issues that might arise during divorce in terms of pensions and the ways in which they can be dealt with as part of a divorce financial settlement, such as off-setting, sharing, and less commonly - through pension attachment orders. They reviewed how overseas pensions offer further complexity when it comes to divorce proceedings as these can be difficult to value and split. They also discussed the decisions individuals need to make when dealing with a pension award in their divorce and the fees which are involved in this. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Clare is Chief Engagement Officer at [PensionBee](https://www.pensionbee.com/), a leading online pension provider. [PensionBee's](https://www.pensionbee.com/) mission is to make pensions simple so that everyone can look forward to a happy retirement. It helps consumers combine, contribute and withdraw from their pension, all in one place. Clare focuses on helping PensionBee transform the pensions industry to better serve consumers, such as the UK’s first Open Banking - pension integrations and launching one of the UK's first mainstream fossil-fuel-free pensions.  Anna has worked in family law for over 16 years, 11 of which as a family law solicitor. She has a thorough knowledge of dealing with finances upon divorce and separation and oversees the drafting of consent orders at [amicable](https://amicable.io/). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 47 — How to co-parent after an affair and divorce with Helen Thorn Published: 2022-02-24 · Duration: 37 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-47-helen-thorn-from-the-scummy-mummies > In this episode, Kate was joined by Helen Thorn, a comedian, author and co-host of the podcast – The Scummy Mummies. In this episode, Kate was joined by Helen Thorn, a comedian, author and co-host of the podcast –  [The Scummy Mummies](https://www.scummymummies.com/pages/about-us). **About the episode:** Kate and Helen discuss the break-up of her marriage during the first lockdown, and what she felt the hardest part about getting divorced was. Helen explained, why it was so important for her to have her husband’s adultery noted in her divorce petition and her view on the approaching change in the law to a no-fault system. Kate explored how Helen manages to make her co-parenting relationship work when it’s clear there is a sense of betrayal, and trust between her and her ex has been clearly damaged. Helen also shared her dating anecdotes and how talking about her divorce helps her navigate the road ahead. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Helen is widely known for her honest and hilarious take on parenthood, being single in her 40s and body positivity. She is co-host of one of the most popular parenting podcasts in the UK – [The Scummy Mummies](https://www.scummymummies.com/pages/about-us). **Get Divorced, Be Happy** is a Sunday Times Bestselling book and follows the first year of Helen’s single life after her relationship of 22 years ends abruptly just before the March 2020 lockdown. Helen shares her roller coaster journey; from the initial shock of separation, the messy months hanging out in her PJs through to the highs of rediscovering sex, rock-solid female friendship and the glorious joy of just being alone. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 46 — Nesting arrangements and co-parenting after divorce Published: 2022-02-17 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-46-nesting-arrangement-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate was joined by Toby Hazlewood to discuss co-parenting and nesting arrangements post-separation and divorce. In this episode, Kate was joined by [Toby Hazlewood](http://tobyhazlewood.com/about-me/) to discuss co-parenting and nesting arrangements post-separation and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate and Toby discussed his marriage and separation, how his parenting- arrangement evolved over time, with him and his wife having experimented with multiple co-parenting patterns before landing on ‘bird nesting’. They discussed the various criticisms levelled at this type of shared-care arrangement and also the potential advantages of nesting.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Toby is a father, husband and writer living in the North-West of England. Through his writing, he shares his experiences of co-parenting and the lessons he’s learned, in the hope of helping others who are going through the same thing. Having divorced when his daughters were 7 and 4, Toby and his wife eventually opted for a nesting co-parenting arrangement until his children reached adulthood.  You can find out more about Toby [here](http://tobyhazlewood.com/about-me/).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 45 — How to bounce back from divorce and heal with Haifa Barbari Published: 2022-02-03 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-45-bouncing-back-after-divorce-separation-and-break-ups > In this episode, Kate was joined by Haifa to discuss bouncing back after divorce, separation, and break-ups. In this episode, Kate was joined by Haifa Barbari to discuss bouncing back after divorce, separation, and break-ups.   **About the episode:** In the episode, Kate and Haifa discussed Haifa's former work as a relationship coach, helping those who are going through a break-up and the impact of lockdown on relationships as well as why divorce rates are higher in the first three years for those who have met through dating apps. Kate and Haifa explored the difference between a broken relationship and one that needs work as well as ‘good break-ups’ and what is meant by ‘conscious uncoupling'.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Haifa Barbari](https://www.instagram.com/thehaifab/?hl=en) is a self-coach who is passionate about empowering healthy relationships with oneself, others and life in general.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 44 — Dividing crypto in divorce financial settlements with Joe David Published: 2022-01-28 · Duration: 37 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-44-cryptocurrency-and-divorce-financial-settlements > In this episode, Kate was joined by Joe David, founder of Myna, for a deeper understanding of the implications of cryptocurrency on divorce financial settlements. In this episode, Kate was joined by Joe David, founder of [Myna](https://www.mynaaccountants.co/), for a deeper understanding of the implications of cryptocurrency on divorce financial settlements. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Joe explore the various types of cryptocurrencies currently available in the market exchange, including the less well known NFT’s, as well as the problems surrounding these sorts of cryptoassets. They look at potential ways to trace back transactions, as well as the volatility of crypto more generally, as well as specific types. They also discussed the apparent void in experts who are prepared to help couples to sort through their crypto assets due to its unregulated nature, however, agreed that both [amicable ](https://amicable.io/)and [Myna](https://www.mynaaccountants.co/) would be happy to help if you are divorcing with crypto in your portfolio. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Joe is the U.K.'s leading cryptocurrency accounting expert. His cryptocurrency specialist accountancy business[ ](https://www.mynaaccountants.co/)supports entrepreneurs and business owners to take control of their finances whilst gaining insight and educating them on the financial market shifts. Joe believes crypto is the future of finance, and that there’s been no better time to get started. However, from Bitcoin and Ethereum to Monero and Litecoin, he says there’s a lot to consider. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 43 — What are the countries with no-fault divorce? With Denise Evans Published: 2022-01-19 · Duration: 38 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-43-no-fault-divorce-implementation-in-other-countries > In this episode, Kate is joined by Denise Evans and Suzanna Kingsford-Smith to discuss no-fault divorce implementation in Australia and New Zealand. In this episode, Kate is joined by Denise Evans and Suzanna Kingsford-Smith to discuss no-fault divorce implementation in Australia and New Zealand. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate is joined by Denise Evans and Suzanna Kingsford-Smith, to discuss no-fault divorce implementation in Australia and New Zealand, and what we can expect from the rollout of no-fault divorce on the 6th of April 2022 in England and Wales.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Denise is a lawyer, mediator and arbitrator and has worked in family law for the last 30 years. She was part of a group that pushed for the out of court Family Dispute Resolution service which assists parents to make care arrangements for their children. She believes that people need to rearrange their lives in a practical way and that systems should support this rather than set up adversarial conflicting approaches. She is grateful for the influence of Māori values and beliefs which are continuing to influence the delivery of justice services in Aotearoa New Zealand. Suzanna is a divorce coach at amicable and has worked in the area of family law for the majority of her career. Suzanna has seen the full spectrum of divorces from the most litigious to the most amicable and is a strong believer that a healthy amicable divorce can be obtained with the right attitude and guidance.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 42 — Exploring menopause and divorce with Founder of SimplyHormones Published: 2022-01-13 · Duration: 40 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-42-menopause-and-relationship-breakdown > In this episode, Kate is joined by Kathryn Colas, to discuss menopause and its impact on relationship breakdown. In this episode, Kate is joined by Kathryn Colas, to discuss menopause and its impact on relationship breakdown. **About the episode:** They explore what menopause is, how it can impact relationships and the importance of separating the impact of menopause on relationships from other causes of relationship breakdown.   Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Kathryn founded [SimplyHormones](https://simplyhormones.com/) in 2007 following her own struggle with menopause over the course of 10 years. Simply Hormones offers face-to-face and online workplace training and one-to-one consultation to help women ‘survive’ menopause, both in and outside of work and offer support to managers to better understand this seismic change of life for their staff. Kathryn’s media appearances include the BBC Radio 4 Woman’s Hour, BBC Breakfast TV along with numerous national newspapers and magazines. In 2020 she launched her first book ‘[How to Survive Menopause Without Losing Your Mind](https://simplyhormones.com/product/the-book-how-to-survive-menopause-without-losing-your-mind-by-kathryn-colas/)’ which dedicates several chapters to relationship breakdown and men.  **You can** **buy Kathryn’s book directly through** [SimplyHormones](https://simplyhormones.com/), **or from all major online book stores. ** Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 41 — The three-month countdown to no-fault divorce with HMCTS Published: 2022-01-06 · Duration: 24 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-41-the-three-month-countdown-to-no-fault-divorce-with-hmcts > Today is the three-month count down until no-fault divorce is introduced in England & Wales. Kate is joined by Isabel Syred from Her Majesties Courts and Tribunal Services (HMCTS) with an exclusive no-fault divorce update on exactly what will change when the new law is introduced this April. Today is the three-month count down until [no-fault divorce](https://amicable.io/no-fault-divorce) is introduced in England & Wales. Kate is joined by Isabel Syred from Her Majesties Courts and Tribunal Services (HMCTS) with an exclusive no-fault divorce update on exactly what will change when the new law is introduced this April.  **About the episode:** Key takeaways: - The new no-fault divorce legislation is on schedule to take effect on the 6th of April 2022 and will replace the current fault-based system - The last opportunity to use the current system will be on the 5th April 2022 at 23:59 and the online transition between the systems will be seamless - You will still be able to submit your application for divorce by post, however, if you wish to apply before the new laws take effect you will need to be mindful of postal delays - The current facts supporting that your marriage has broken down irretrievably will be removed. These are; adultery, desertion, two years separation with consent, five years separation and unreasonable behaviour - There will be a change in terminology from decree nisi and decree absolute to conditional order and final order to reduce the legal jargon - You will be able to petition jointly, removing the need for the acknowledgement of service if a couple choose to do this - You can still make an individual application for divorce, however, the respondent has up to 14 days to respond to this - Due to the 20 week cooling-off period between the issue date and the conditional order divorces will likely take a minimum of 30 weeks - Civil partners will be able to use the new online system to dissolve their civil partnership, which is not currently available at the moment - There shouldn’t be an impact on existing cases - Expect further updates from HMCTS in February 2022 Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Isabel is the Service Manager for Divorce and Financial Remedy, she has worked for HMCTS for 35 years and her background is mainly in family and civil work. She has worked on Divorce and Financial Remedy specifically for the last five years and moving the process from paper to digital. The digital products currently are well established digital uptake is 89% for people doing their divorce themselves and the majority of solicitors are also using the digital services. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 40 — Navigating cryptocurrency and divorce with expert, Ash Pugh Published: 2021-12-15 · Duration: 29 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-40-cryptocurrency-and-divorce > In this episode, Kate is joined by Ash Pugh and Dan Martinez to discuss cryptocurrency and divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by Ash Pugh and Dan Martinez to discuss cryptocurrency and divorce. **About the episode:** Kate, Ash and Dan explore how the cryptocurrency space is developing and its impact on divorce financial settlements. They also discuss the importance of equipping yourself with knowledge if your spouse has cryptocurrency and when you may need expert help if cryptocurrency features in your marital assets. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Ash is the co-founder of New Kids on the Blockchain, a leading content provider specialising in creation and distribution within the exciting and fast-moving blockchain and cryptocurrency space. Over the last three years, award-winning documentary filmmakers, Ash and Lisa have travelled the globe attending key events as media partners and filming the leading influencers, projects and key opinion leaders for both their online content channel, as well as a feature documentary released in 2020. They are currently in post-production on the sequel to this on the rise Of DeFi. The weekly blockchain show features all the news about the global scene and is growing a strong following.  Dan has over twelve years’ experience in family law, with the majority of his clients coming from word-of-mouth recommendations. Dan has a great reputation and extensive knowledge of the legalities surrounding divorce and separation. He has been a divorce coach at amicable for over a year. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 39 — Co-parenting at Christmas with co-parent coach Marcie Shaoul Published: 2021-12-09 · Duration: 27 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-39-co-parenting-at-christmas > In this episode, Kate is joined by Marcie Shaoul and Anthony Syder to discuss co-parenting at Christmas from two different perspectives: a co-parenting coach and a child of divorce. In this episode, Kate is joined by Marcie Shaoul and Anthony Syder to discuss co-parenting at Christmas from two different perspectives: a co-parenting coach and a child of divorce. **About the episode:** Kate, Marcie and Anthony discuss common co-parenting pitfalls around the festive period, how to navigate blended families, what to do about presents and former traditions and the role of extended family. Marcie and Anthony also give their top tips for co-parenting around Christmas.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Marcie](https://thecoparentway.com/about-us/) is director of [The Co-Parent Way](https://thecoparentway.com/), the UK’s only Co-Parent Coaching Practice. She is a thought leader in co-parenting and is responsible for developing a unique coaching methodology that enables parents to get to a place where they can co-parent together effectively after separation. It provides coaching specifically for couples or individuals who are separating and who have kids. Marcie is a member of Resolution and sits on their Parenting After Parting Committee.  [Anthony](https://calendly.com/amicable/call?month=2021-12) is a dispute resolution practitioner with experience across multiple sectors including family, employment and commercial. His areas of interest include the voice of the child, diverse and inclusive families and human rights. Anthony currently sits on the board of the Family Mediators Association and is a divorce coach and partnerships lead at [amicable](https://amicable.io/). **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 38 — Discussing religion and divorce with Dr. Leyla Hussein Published: 2021-11-24 · Duration: 30 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-38-dr-leyla-hussein > In this episode Kate is joined by Dr. Leyla Hussein to discuss how religion impacts divorce. In this episode Kate is joined by [Dr. Leyla Hussein](https://www.leylahussein.co.uk/) to discuss how religion impacts divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Leyla discuss the challenges surrounding her divorce, given her Somali and her husband’s Kenyan heritage as well as why she thinks society should change the narrative around divorce through education and the promotion of healthy relationships. Leyla also discussed why she has chosen to host divorce parties as a form of celebration for her friends. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Dr. Leyla Hussein ](https://www.leylahussein.co.uk/)went through her own Islamic divorce over 15 years ago, and has since spoken out about her marriage, her difficult divorce, finding happiness after divorce and ‘divorce parties’. Leyla is a psychotherapist, specialising in supporting survivors of sexual abuse. She is an international lecturer on female genital mutilation (FGM) and speaker on gender rights. She is recognised as one of the key experts on this issue globally and is a leading and award-winning international campaigner against all forms of violence against women and girls. Leyla founded [The Dahlia Project](https://www.dahliaproject.org/), the UK’s first specialist therapeutic service for FGM survivors. In 2020, she was elected as Rector of the University of St Andrews for a three-year term, making history as the first Black woman to hold the position. She currently works as the Global Advocacy Director and Deputy Team Leader for the Africa-led Movement to End FGM.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 37 — Co-parenting from different countries with Harriet Hadfield Published: 2021-11-10 · Duration: 30 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-37-co-parenting-from-different-countries > In this episode Kate is joined by Harriet Hadfield to discuss the best ways of co-parenting from different countries. In this episode Kate is joined by Harriet Hadfield to discuss the best ways of co-parenting from different countries. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and Harriet discuss the challenges that come with co-parenting from different countries, as well as some helpful tips to help co-parents cope with this, and separation in general. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Harriet Hadfield is a broadcaster and journalist who’s covered notable news stories for the BBC and Sky News over the past 15 years. Since her marriage broke down suddenly and unexpectedly last year, she and her 3-year-old son Jack have settled on the Isle of Wight to be near her family and to the beach. Jack’s dad lives in Switzerland so they have been learning to cross-border co-parent, made all the trickier during a pandemic.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 36 — Exploring the impact of divorce on children with Place2be Published: 2021-11-03 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-36-childrens-mental-health-with-place2be > In this episode, Kate is joined by Cecilia Corbetta and Judah Racham from Place2Be to explore the impact of divorce on children. In this episode, Kate is joined by Cecilia Corbetta and Judah Racham from [Place2Be](https://www.place2be.org.uk/) to explore the impact of divorce on children. **About the episode:** This episode explores the impact of divorce on children, through the expertise of Cecilia Corbetta and Judah Racham from [Place2Be](https://www.place2be.org.uk/). Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Place2Be](https://www.place2be.org.uk/) is a children’s mental health charity with over 25 years of experience working with pupils, families and staff in UK schools. Its mission is to improve children and young people’s mental health. Place2Be's vision is for all children and young people to have the support they need to build lifelong coping skills and thrive. Cecilia is Regional Clinical Lead for London and West. Cecilia joined Place2Be in 2003 and holds national responsibility for Parent Work. She is a BACP accredited counsellor and clinical supervisor with over 17 years of experience delivering counselling, therapeutic services and supervision within schools and private practice. Judah is Programme Leader for Family Work. He is a BACP registered counsellor, and Parent-training Mentor, who joined Place2Be in 2021. He has over 7 years of experience delivering counselling and therapeutic services for adults and children. Judah has been supporting parents and carers, delivering parent training and supervising parenting practitioners within local authorities and the NHS for over 17 years. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 35 — Exploring divorce anxiety and methods for coping with divorce Published: 2021-10-27 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-35-tips-to-improve-your-mental-health-during-divorce-or-separation > In this episode Kate is joined by Maria Boghiu and Graham Landi from Spill to discuss divorce anxiety and methods for coping with divorce. In this episode Kate is joined by Maria Boghiu and Graham Landi from [Spill](https://www.spill.chat/) to discuss divorce anxiety and methods for coping with divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and her guests discuss the impact of divorce and separation on individuals' mental health. They explore how the feelings of anxiety and overwhelm manifest themselves and what can be done to help manage these feelings. They also discuss useful tools to help individuals mental health when going through a divorce or separation, and when an intervention such as therapy or counselling may be needed. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Spill](https://www.spill.chat/) is a health-tech start-up with a mission to bring high-quality therapy to as many people as possible.  Maria is Head of Product at Spill, with a background in tech as a software engineer and is currently in the process of re-training to become an existential therapist. She has a small clinical practice outside of Spill, working as a volunteer counsellor in a bereavement service, and offers low-cost therapy. Graham** **has spent the last nine years as a practising counsellor and coach, following on from retraining having spent 25 years in the corporate world. His experience prior to counselling has given him an unparalleled insight into both the fundamentals of the human condition as well as the pressures of corporate life. Graham is accredited with the National Counselling Society. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 34 — What’s the difference between a Divorce Specialist and a mediator? Published: 2021-10-19 · Duration: 33 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-34-from-divorce-lawyer-and-mediator-to-divorce-coach > In this episode Kate is joined by Bec Jones and Anthony Syder to establish once and for all what the difference is between a Divorce Specialist and a mediator. In this episode Kate is joined by Bec Jones and Anthony Syder to establish once and for all what the difference is between a Divorce Specialist and a mediator. **About the episode:** In this episode, Kate and her guests discuss their retrospective journeys within family law and their transition from divorce lawyer/ mediator to divorce coach. They also explore the various options open to couples when they divorce, and how to decide which may option may be best for you and your family. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Bec has a background in family law as a family law solicitor with over 8 years’ experience and has also been through her own divorce. She is fantastic at offering pragmatic advice and is a fountain of knowledge when it comes to the legalities around divorce and separation. Bec has been a divorce coach at amicable for over five years and has authored and appeared in a number of articles surrounding divorce, separation and co-parenting and is well known for her tips for maintaining a blended family.  Anthony is a dispute resolution practitioner with experience across multiple sectors including family, employment and commercial. His areas of interest include the voice of the child, diverse and inclusive families and human rights. Anthony currently sits on the board of the Family Mediators Association and is a divorce coach and partnerships lead at amicable.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 33 — Separation and co-parenting stories with actress Helen Lederer Published: 2021-09-29 · Duration: 36 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-33-helen-lederer > In this episode Kate is joined by Helen Lederer to discuss co-parenting and her life post-divorce. In this episode Kate is joined by Helen Lederer to discuss co-parenting and her life post-divorce. **About the episode:** In this episode, Helen and Kate discuss her divorce, being a single mother and how to 'get back on the horse' after breakups and separation.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Helen Lederer](https://www.helenlederer.co.uk/) is a comedian, writer and actress who emerged as part of the alternative comedy boom at the beginning of the 1980s. She established a stand-up act at the Comedy Store in London and then won parts in episodes of _The Young Ones_, which had been written by her Comedy Store contemporaries Ben Elton and Rik Mayall. Among her television credits are the BBC2 sketch series Naked Video and BBC One's Absolutely Fabulous.  Helen has been a constant TV presence appearing on a myriad of comedy and panel shows as well as Theatre, taking a role in The Vagina Monologues and Calendar Girls. More recently, Helen launched a new literary prize for comic fiction written by women. Helen is twice married and once divorced and has a daughter from her first marriage. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 32 — Exploring what happens to pets in a divorce with Dr Rory Cowlam Published: 2021-09-21 · Duration: 43 min · Category: Pets · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-32-pets-separation-and-divorce > Kate is joined by Rory the Vet and Oli Juste, dog behaviourist, to discuss all things pet and separation. Kate is joined by [Rory the Vet](https://www.instagram.com/rorythevet/?hl=en) and [Oli Juste](https://www.olijustedogtrainer.co.uk/), dog behaviourist, to discuss all things pet and separation. **About the episode:** Kate and her guests explore all topics related to pets, divorce and separation – from pet anxiety when their owners split to whether ‘petnups’ might be the way forward.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Dr Rory Cowlam](https://www.instagram.com/rorythevet/?hl=en), also known as Rory the Vet is a practising veterinary surgeon in the UK. Rory has a popular television presence with a leading role in the CBBC show The Pets Factor now on its 8th series of production. As well as this, Rory has appeared on Blue Peter, BBC Breakfast, Lorraine, CBBC HQ as well as Saturday Morning Mash-Up. [Oli Juste](https://www.olijustedogtrainer.co.uk/), is a UK based dog behaviourist, who provides positive, modern, ethical dog training with an emphasis on behaviour to dogs and their owners all over the UK & Europe through his 1-on-1 Online Video sessions. Oli, from Channel Four’s Puppy School, also featured in This Morning, The Telegraph, Dogs Today, Metro and Hello Magazine.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 31 — Exploring the effects of divorce on children with Dr. Amy Baker Published: 2021-09-10 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-31-dr-amy-baker > In this episode Kate is joined by Dr. Amy Baker to discuss the effects of divorce on children. In this episode Kate is joined by Dr. Amy Baker to discuss the effects of divorce on children. **About the episode:** Dr. Amy Baker brings her substantial expertise to talk about the effects of divorce on children. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Dr. Amy Baker has a PhD in Developmental Psychology from Teachers College of Columbia University in the USA and is a researcher, expert, author, and a nationally recognized expert in parent child relationships, especially children of divorce. She is the author or co-author of 8 books and over 115 articles on parental alienation, co-parenting with a toxic ex, and helping teenagers navigate their parent’s divorce. She works as a coach to lawyers and mental health professionals as well as continuing her academic research and working as expert witness in courts. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 30 — Navigating mental health and divorce with comedian, Carl Donnelly Published: 2021-09-03 · Duration: 46 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-30-carl-donnelly > In this episode Kate is joined by Carl Donnelly to discuss navigating mental health and divorce with comedian. In this episode Kate is joined by Carl Donnelly to discuss navigating mental health and divorce with comedian. **About the episode:** Comedian Carl Donnelly shares the story of his own divorce and how it affected his mental health. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Carl Donnelly](https://www.instagram.com/carldonnelly/) is an award-winning stand-up comedian, writer, and podcaster. He’s been twice nominated for the Edinburgh Comedy Award and appeared on a selection of TV shows such as Mock The Week, and Russell Howard’s Good News. Carl has travelled the world having performed at the Just For Laughs Festival in Montreal, The Melbourne International Comedy Festival, The New Zealand Comedy Festival. In this episode, Carl talks candidly about his divorce and his mental health.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 29 — Moving on after a separation with comedian, Rosie Wilby Published: 2021-08-24 · Duration: 38 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-29-rosie-wilby > In this episode Kate is joined by Rosie Wilby to discuss the process of moving on after a separation. In this episode Kate is joined by Rosie Wilby to discuss the process of moving on after a separation. **About the episode:** Rosie Wilby shares her thoughts on how to move on after a separation. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk P.s. We're sorry that the sound quality of this episode is not up to our usual standards, we're still recording remotely! **About our guests:** Rosie Wilby is an award-winning comedian, author and podcaster who has appeared many times on BBC Radio 4 programmes including _Woman's Hour _and _Four Thought. _Her first book _Is Monogamy Dead?_ was longlisted for the Polari First Book Prize and followed a trilogy of solo shows investigating the psychology of love and relationships. Her new book [The Breakup Monologues](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breakup-Monologues-Unexpected-Joy-Heartbreak/dp/1472982304?ltclid=91c3b146-4f55-4d41-901b-a3b27db8298d)_ _is based on her acclaimed podcast of the same name. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 28 — How to empower yourself after a breakup with Zemar Dajani Published: 2021-08-17 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-28-zemar-dajani > In this episode Kate is joined by Zemar Dajani to discuss how to empower yourself after a breakup. In this episode Kate is joined by Zemar Dajani to discuss how to empower yourself after a breakup. **About the episode:** Kate and Zemar discuss the emotional journey of the breakup and how it impacts your life afterwards in this truly empowering episode. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Zemar Dajani is a proud mum of two girls, Dania and Yasmina, who are from two different marriages in two different countries. Zemar’s first marriage in Jordan was very difficult, after her first divorce she re-invented herself and decided to go to law school. Since qualifying, Zemar has been working as a Commercial Solicitor in London for over 15 years and is also an accredited breakup and divorce coach practitioner. Zemar’s book ["From Breakup to Empowerment"](https://www.amazon.co.uk/BREAKUP-EMPOWERMENT-Getting-Positive-Separation/dp/B08P6RYZ46) is a guidebook on divorce to provide helpful tips for any person embarking on a divorce in England or America. The book tackles the various steps which may ease the divorce process; it covers topics such as: finances, emotional issues, child custody and maintenance as well as how to start a new life post-divorce. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 27 — How to have an amicable separation with author, Lucy Fry Published: 2021-07-21 · Duration: 30 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-27-lucy-fry > In this episode Kate is joined by Lucy Fry to discuss how to have an amicable separation based on her own experience. In this episode Kate is joined by Lucy Fry to discuss how to have an amicable separation based on her own experience. **About the episode:** During this episode, Lucy shares how she and her wife co-parent their son and how they've achieved an amicable split, even with bumps in the road. Thank you Lucy for your realistic and honest insights into relationships and parenthood.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About Lucy** [Lucy Fry](https://www.lucyfry.co.uk/) is a writer, author and speaker. Her memoir, Easier Ways To Say I Love You, explores love, lust and loss in all its rawest forms. Lucy has worked as a weekly columnist at The Sunday Telegraph newspaper and has written articles for publications like The Guardian, Times, Telegraph, Mail on Sunday, Stylist, Psychologies and Women’s Health. Lucy’s particular areas of expertise include physical, mental and emotional health, and addiction. You can find out more about Lucy on her Instagram: [@lucy\_fry\_writer](https://www.instagram.com/lucy_fry_writer/) Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 26 — What if one partner doesn’t want a divorce? Relate answer FAQs Published: 2021-07-13 · Duration: 31 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-26-i-want-a-divorce-but-my-partner-doesnt > In this episode Kate is joined by Dee Holmes and Peter Saddington, who are Relate counsellors, to discuss the difficult bit when one of you knows the relationship is over but the other person isn't ready to move forwards. In this episode Kate is joined by Dee Holmes and Peter Saddington, who are [Relate](https://www.relate.org.uk/) counsellors, to discuss the difficult bit when one of you knows the relationship is over but the other person isn't ready to move forwards. **About the episode:** This episode is about the beginning of a separation. The difficult bit when one of you knows the relationship is over but the other person isn't ready to move forwards. Our guests are [Relate](https://www.relate.org.uk/) counsellors, Dee Holmes and Peter Saddington. [Relate ](https://www.relate.org.uk/)is known as ‘the relationship people’, specialising in counselling for every type of relationship including marriage counselling, LGBT issues, divorce and parenting. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Dee Holmes has worked for Relate since 1997 and trained as a couple counsellor initially and then as a family, young persons and children’s counsellor. Dee has worked in schools and colleges (from 5 to 18 age group) delivering counselling and have often heard and seen the effect of parental conflict around separation can have on young people. Dee’s current role is part of the team that oversees the clinical governance in Relate , she is also the clinical lead for safeguarding and the lead for children and young people at Relate.  Peter Saddington is an experienced relationship counsellor and sex therapist who also has experience in family counselling and addiction therapy. Peter has worked for Relate since 1994 and works with couples and individuals who are going through separation as well counselling people through re-building relationships. Peter’s clients can be aged anything from 16 with his oldest client being 93.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 25 — How to survive divorce with TV personality, Anthea Turner Published: 2021-07-13 · Duration: 28 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-11-anthea-turner > During this episode, Kate is joined by Anthea Turner to discuss her divorce and her book ‘How To Survive Divorce’. During this episode, Kate is joined by Anthea Turner to discuss her divorce and her book ‘How To Survive Divorce’.   **About the episode:** Anthea shares her experience of divorce and what it was like for such a private moment to be so public, what led Anthea to write her book and her advice for couples who are facing their separation journey. You can purchase Anthea's book on [Amazon](https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=How+to+Survive+Divorce+by+Anthea+Turner&ref=nb_sb_noss). **About our guests:** Anthea Turner has been in the spotlight for over 30 years presenting some of the UK's favourite shows including GMTV, Blue Peter, The National Lottery and most recently starring in the brilliant Celebrity SAS on Channel 4. In 2018, Anthea wrote ‘How To Survive Divorce’, which aims to inspire, motivate and help those going through relationship breakups. How to Survive Divorce is Anthea's candid take on the emotional toll the end of her marriage took on her well-being and how she came out of the ordeal, a stronger, more confident woman. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 24 — Navigating the emotions of co-parenting with The Breaking Dad Published: 2021-07-08 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-25-dan-betts-the-breaking-dad > In this episode Kate is joined by Dan Betts aka The Breaking Dad to discuss his journey as a co-parent and a single dad. In this episode Kate is joined by Dan Betts aka [The Breaking Dad](https://www.instagram.com/the_breaking_dad/) to discuss his journey as a co-parent and a single dad. **About the episode:** Dan Betts shares his story of divorce and co-parenting. Find out more and follow him [here](https://www.instagram.com/the_breaking_dad/). Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Dan is a 31-year-old Dad from Hampshire, and co-parent to his beautiful four-year-old daughter Evie.  Evie’s mum and Dan separated just over two years ago when she was two and have since been navigating the ups and downs of a co-parenting life which as we know can be tough. Dan started to share their journey together on social media in an honest, no-frills and candid way, to show other co-parents who are struggling with parental separation that they aren’t alone. He now has a substantial online following and is known as [The Breaking Dad](https://www.instagram.com/the_breaking_dad/).  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 23 — The Parents Promise: prioritising your children during divorce Published: 2021-06-30 · Duration: 34 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-24-the-parents-promise > In this episode, Kate is joined by James Hayhurst and Dr Angharad Rudkin to discuss the newly launched campaign, the Parents Promise. In this episode, Kate is joined by James Hayhurst and Dr Angharad Rudkin to discuss the newly launched campaign, the [Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/). **About the episode:** Kate Daly, James Hayhurst and Dr Angharad Rudkin discuss the challenges that children and parents face as a result of divorce. They also talk about the newly launched campaign, the [Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/). Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** James Hayhurst is the founder of the Positive Parenting Alliance and creator of the [Parents Promise](https://theparentspromise.org.uk/). Having seen up close the multitude of issues in the family courts and the scale and numbers of children affected James wanted to begin a new conversation about separation. In May 2021, after many conversations with like-minded people and organisations, the Parents Promise was launched. Backed by over 20 organisations ranging from the likes of the children’s mental health charity Place2Be to Relate to Black Mums Upfront the aim of the Alliance is to effect important cultural change around separation in the UK and beyond. Dr Angharad Rudkin is a clinical psychologist with 20 years experience of working with children and families. Angharad is also an expert for the Metro's relationship column and the program tutor for Clinical Psychology doctorates at the University of Southampton and has co-written parenting books and books for children, including consulting editor for ‘101 Questions Answered about Separating with Children’. Angharad is also passionate about communicating her work believing key messages around child and family well-being should not be limited to the clinic room or the classroom and has a wide media profile.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 22 — Divorce stories and advice with award-winning author, Holly Bell Published: 2021-06-22 · Duration: 35 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-23-holly-bell > In this episode Kate is joined by Holly Bell to share some divorce advice. In this episode Kate is joined by Holly Bell to share some divorce advice. **About the episode:** Kate and Holly Bell discuss her book “[I know I don't know you, but... True stories, reflections & advice on divorce](https://hollybellbooks.com/products/pre-order-i-know-i-dont-know-you-but-true-stories-reflections-advice-on-divorce)" and share some divorce wisdom. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Holly Bell is an award-winning blogger, author and a finalist of the Great British Bake-Off. Holly is divorced and has three sons and recently released her book, “[I know I don't know you, but... True stories, reflections & advice on divorce](https://hollybellbooks.com/products/pre-order-i-know-i-dont-know-you-but-true-stories-reflections-advice-on-divorce)" after experiencing many women reaching out to her for advice and support. Holly wrote the book to be a bit like a friend, who would advise you on what to do with your wedding ring as well as how to cope with sleeping alone. She believes stigma should be banished from divorce and has sat in too many coffee shops in Leicester advising friends to believe that all divorces can be amicable.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 21 — Campaigning for no-fault divorce law change with Nigel Shepherd Published: 2021-06-19 · Duration: 22 min · Category: The legal bit · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-10-no-fault-divorce-update-with-nigel-shepherd > During this episode, you'll learn more about when couples in England and Wales will be able to use no-fault divorce and what will change when the laws are introduced. During this episode, Kate is joined by Nigel Shepherd to discuss the Divorce Bill and no-fault divorce. **About the episode:** Nigel breaks down what the Divorce Bill is, what's going to change from the current divorce laws in England and Wales and when it's likely to become law (because it isn't yet). This is a brilliant episode that succinctly summarises what's in the news and what it means for couples who are divorcing and separating in England and Wales. No-fault divorce is not yet law in England and Wales despite a 2019 YouGov poll commissioned by Resolution showed 71% of the population agrees that no-fault divorce is urgently needed to protect the long-term interests of children. On Wednesday 17th June, no-fault divorce was given the go-ahead in England and Wales as the Divorce Bill passed its final stages in Parliament. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Nigel Shepherd is twice Chair, honorary Life Member and current national committee member of Resolution, adviser to family law funder Ampla Finance, and Consultant with the national firm law firm, Mills & Reeve. The firm and Nigel, in particular, were permitted to intervene in the now infamous Tini Owens case divorce case. Nigel has been campaigning for no-fault divorce for over 25 years and was awarded the John Cornwell Award for Outstanding Contribution to Family Law at the Jordans Family Law Awards in 2019. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 20 — Divorce and financial planning: budgeting through a divorce Published: 2021-06-18 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Finances · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-22-financially-planning-your-way-through-divorce-and-separation > In this episode Kate is joined by Tamsin Caine to discuss how to budget through a divorce. In this episode Kate is joined by Tamsin Caine to discuss how to budget through a divorce. **About the episode:** [Smart Divorce](https://smartdivorce.co.uk/) provides bespoke divorce financial planning services to those who are faced with navigating the challenges of divorce or dissolving a civil partnership. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Tamsin Caine has a background of over 15 years in financial services.  She began Smart Divorce following her own experience of divorce. Tamsin now advises people in the same situation as she once was in, helping and empowering them to take back control of their lives and finances. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 19 — The story behind amicable and The Divorce Podcast with Kate Daly Published: 2021-05-26 · Duration: 15 min · Category: Separation stories · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-21-solo-episode-with-kate-daly > In this solo episode, Kate shares her journey and why she created The Divorce Podcast and amicable. In this solo episode, Kate shares her journey and why she created The Divorce Podcast and [amicable](https://amicable.io/). **About the episode:** Since we've hit the milestone of twenty episodes, we wanted to give you a chance to get to know your host, Kate Daly, a little better. In this solo episode, Kate shares her journey and why she created The Divorce Podcast and [amicable](https://amicable.io/). It's short but sweet and we hope you enjoy it learning more about Kate.  Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Kate Daly is a co-founder of amicable. Kate is a divorce expert and helps couples and separated parents navigate divorce and separation amicably. Kate is passionate about changing the way the world divorces and campaigns for fairer divorce laws and access to justice. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 18 — Ulrika Jonsson on divorce, co-parenting and blended families Published: 2021-05-17 · Duration: 33 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-20-ulrika-jonsson > In this episode Kate is joined by Ulrika Jonsson to discuss divorce, co-parenting and blended families. In this episode Kate is joined by Ulrika Jonsson to discuss divorce, co-parenting and blended families. **About the episode:** During this episode, Ulrika talks honestly and openly about each of her three divorces and how she and her exes have navigated co-parenting and blended families for over 25 years. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Ulrika Jonsson is a television presenter and writer. She has an illustrious TV career including TV AM, Gladiators, Shooting Stars and Celebrity Big Brother to name just a few. Ulrika has been married three times and has four children.  Follow Ulrika on Instagram [@ulrikajonssonofficial](https://www.instagram.com/ulrikajonssonofficial/) **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 17 — FAQs for parents apart with ITV parenting expert Sue Atkins Published: 2021-03-15 · Duration: 26 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-19-sue-atkins-the-parenting-coach > In this episode Kate is joined by Sue Atkins with FAQs for parents apart. In this episode Kate is joined by Sue Atkins with FAQs for parents apart. **About the episode:** Topics covered in this episode include: back to school anxiety, common questions from separating and separated parents, journalling and how it can help children through their parents' divorce or separation. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** [Sue Atkins](https://sueatkinsparentingcoach.com/) has over 15 years experience as a parenting coach and teacher, she is also Mum to two kids. Sue is the Parenting Expert for ITV’s ‘This Morning’, BBC Radio, Disney Junior, Good Morning Britain and India’s Education and Parenting World. She’s helped thousands of parents to overcome challenges and develop a balanced, down to earth parenting approach that creates happy, positive children, and relaxed confident parents.  **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 16 — Top co-parenting tips for dads during divorce with DAD.info Published: 2021-02-26 · Duration: 27 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-18-ian-soars-ceo-of-dad-info-and-fegans > In this episode, Kate is joined by Ian Soars to share best co-parenting tips. In this episode, Kate is joined by Ian Soars to share best co-parenting tips. **About the episode:** What is [Dad.Info](https://www.dad.info/) and why has it become Europe's largest support and advice website for Fathers? Kate and Ian discuss the role of Dads, the most common topics and questions asked on the site, the impact COVID-19 has had on shared care and visits, how parents can avoid damaging their kids mental wellbeing when they divorce and separate. This is a fab episode jam packed with lots of advice for Dads and Mums. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Ian Soars is a CEO of Dad.Info. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 15 — Relationship expert’s advice for dating after divorce Published: 2021-02-12 · Duration: 29 min · Category: Life after divorce · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-17-dating-after-divorce-and-during-a-pandemic > In this episode Kate is joined by Rachael Lloyd and James Preece for expert’s advice for dating after divorce. In this episode Kate is joined by Rachael Lloyd and [James Preece](https://www.jamespreece.com/) for expert’s advice for dating after divorce. **About the episode:** This episode is all about dating after divorce (and in lockdown). Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Rachael Lloyd is [eharmony](https://www.eharmony.co.uk/)'s relationship expert and [James Preece](https://www.jamespreece.com/) is the UK's top celebrity dating expert and dating coach. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 14 — Exploring mental health in the workplace after divorce Published: 2020-12-17 · Duration: 24 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-16-mental-health-divorce-and-work > In this episode, Kate is joined by mental health expert Petra Velzboer and HR specialist, Gareth Jones who discuss what can be done in the work place to look after people's mental health generally and when navigating difficult life moments like a break-up. In this episode, Kate is joined by [Petra Velzboer](https://petravelzeboer.com/) and [Gareth Jones](https://www.amberpeople.co.uk/) to discuss mental health in the workplace after divorce. **About the episode:** The breakdown of a relationship is tough and putting a brave face on at work or using work as distraction is the default position for many people. Recent research revealed that a staggering 1 in 10 people leave their job after a divorce or separation and 56% of employees say their work could do more to support them with mental health struggles. In this episode, Kate and her guests discuss what can be done in the work place to look after people's mental health generally and when navigating difficult life moments like a break-up. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk  **About our guests:** Petra’s expertise and passion in mental health in the workplace stems from her own personal experience battling mental illness and struggling with cultural and circumstantial challenges. After being raised in a religious cult without any access to formal education, her story and climb from rock bottom have inspired thousands to better understand how to improve mental health for themselves and others. Gareth is a passionate HR practitioner with multi sector experience including technology, media, design, and luxury consumer with over 14 years’ expertise working with some of the markets leading start-up and growth businesses. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. --- ## Episode 13 — What’s a blended family and how can you navigate them? Published: 2020-12-07 · Duration: 26 min · Category: Coparenting · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-15-blended-families > In this episode Kate discusses blended families and is joined by Sophia Rantzau. In this episode Kate discusses blended families and is joined by Sophia Rantzau. **About the episode:** Having her very own blended family, Sophia honestly shares her “wins” and “mistakes” as a step-mum in the book. She does this along with providing guidance, reassurance and a bit of humour to enable you to enjoy your “wins” too. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Sophia is a qualified counsellor and has worked with many parents, children and blended families. Sophia lives in Storrington, West Sussex with her husband and their two cats Cotton and Bud! Her Stepson now refers to her as “the best stepmum in the world”! **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. Thanks for listening - here’s 3 months of the[ amicable co-parenting app](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) for free! Open[ this link](https://amicable.io/coparenting-app) on your phone, install the app and create your account. Once that’s done, select 'I have a promo code' when setting up your family, enter PODCAST, press ‘apply’ and enjoy staying organised together. --- ## Episode 12 — How to tell your children about divorce and separation Published: 2020-09-28 · Duration: 26 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-14-how-to-tell-your-children-youre-getting-divorced > During this episode, Kate is joined by Divorce Coaches Sara Davison and Rhiannon Ford as they discuss when and how to tell your children you're getting divorced. During this episode, Kate is joined by Divorce Coaches [Sara Davison](https://saradavison.com/) and [Rhiannon Ford](https://rhiannonford.co.uk/) as they discuss when and how to tell your children you're getting divorced. **About the episode:** The trio discuss when and how to tell your children, how to tailor the conversation for different ages and stages, how to support your child in the early stages of separating, how to spot if your child isn't coping well with the news and the change. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Sara is a break-up expert, divorce coach and best-selling author. Sara launched her break-up retreats back in 2016 and her mission is to banish stigma around divorce. Rhiannon is a divorce consultant, and was previously a family lawyer, and left the profession to support people with more practical help and emotional support. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. ### Transcript

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--- ## Episode 11 — Dads and divorce: support and advice from OnlyDads Published: 2020-08-19 · Duration: 28 min · Category: Emotional journey · URL: https://www.thedivorcepodcast.com/episode/episode-13-dads-and-divorce-with-onlydads > In this episode, Kate is joined by Bob Greig as he shares his view on being a Dad and separating. In this episode, Kate is joined by Bob Greig as he shares his view on being a Dad and separating. **About the episode:** This episode explains how [OnlyDads](https://www.onlydads.org/) supports parents who are struggling to make the best decisions for their family during separation and divorce. Please note: this episode was recorded before the introduction of no-fault divorce in England and Wales, and may mention the previous legal system. For accurate information on the legal process of divorce, please visit amicable.co.uk **About our guests:** Bob Greig is the co-founder of [OnlyDads](https://www.onlydads.org/) and [OnlyMums](https://www.onlymums.org/) which were set up to support Mums and Dads through divorce, separation and co-parenting. **More resources:** Get in touch with amicable for information on the legal, financial and children aspects of separation. Book a [free 15-minute consultation](https://amicable.io/) with an amicable expert through the amicable website. ---